The yellow and orange M zones

fasteddy1970 · #1 12-20-2006, 05:05 PM

In Harrington's second book on tournament play, he advises loosening up your play with certain hands and calling raises with hands you wouldn't call with if your M was larger, but he doesn't get specific. Can anyone cite an example of what kind of hand you start to play when your M gets to be in the 10-20 (yellow zone) range that you wouldn't play in with an M well over 20? What hands to you start calling raises with that you would ordinarily fold because of the Gap Concept? Thanks

BT2 · #2 12-20-2006, 05:13 PM

the concept of getting looser as your M gets smaller doesn;t make that much sense to me

RobTheDuck · #3 12-20-2006, 05:17 PM

This is a combination of my recollection of HoH2 and my personal experience/strategy:

I typically tighten up when my M gets between 10 and 20 (probably more like 18, actually). I will fold small pairs from early and mid-position. I will play fewer suited connectors. I will absolutely not open-limp. I will try to end hands early and simply take down pots.

This is a tricky stage of a tournment since I'm not deep stacked anymore, but I'm also not in push/fold mode quite yet. Restealing becomes important now, since the blinds have risen to a size that matters.

mornelth · #4 12-20-2006, 05:19 PM

Actually, I think YELLOW zone is the one where you tighten up on steals, bottom of the yeloow orange is good for resteal / steal pushes (depending on antes).

Example: A9o in BB is a hand you should be frequently folding to a raise WHEN DEEP, however this is a hand I'l probably shove over an LP raise if I'm down to 15 BB's (M=10 with no antes) and I do not think that raiser is a Super-nit.

mornelth · #5 12-20-2006, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the concept of getting looser as your M gets smaller doesn;t make that much sense to me

[/ QUOTE ]

y not?

4CardStraight · #6 12-20-2006, 05:27 PM

I think theres a bit of misunderstanding around these topics... Like for instance, If you are in the red zone that you should shove any two cards any time its folded to you... I think thats bad advice.

I don't think you need to get terribly looser as far as starting hands go, but rather understand that lower M's do change play. If your M is low, you have less tools at your disposal. You cant cbet every street and fold at the river. You cant check raise all in on the turn and hope to have any folding equity. You probably shouldnt be "Speculating" on suited connectors hoping for implied odds to get 8 to 10x your bet, especially if your M is under, say... 8 to 10.

You should, however, consider open pushing hands where normally you might raise.

You should also, consider widening your calling range if someone shoves whose M is low.

You should also make sure to add the "Resteal" to your playbook, in the M=6 to M=10 range.

You should also have scenarios where you plan to cold call preflop and shove any flop

Are there hands that I would turbo fold if deep stacked, but play if I was short stacked? I guess. Like for instance I would open shove A7o-ATo from the button or cutoff, if my M was under say 6, where I would turbofold them from the cutoff in an unopened pot where I was deep stacked. There arent tons tho, and I certainly wouldnt advise someone to just start open shoving any two cards, just because there M is getting into orange and red.

fasteddy1970 · #7 12-20-2006, 05:30 PM

battle: Me neither which is one reason I'm asking. The thing is that I've found that usually when I disagree with Harrington, it's because I am not fully grasping something rather than him being wrong.

fasteddy1970 · #8 12-20-2006, 05:33 PM

4 card: I agree with all that you said especially with your last paragraph. But Harrington also specifically says that you need to start loosening your opening hand requirements and calling of raises requirements midway through the yellow and most certainly in the orange. I have a hard time doing that.

Jeff76 · #9 12-20-2006, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But Harrington also specifically says that you need to start loosening your opening hand requirements and calling of raises requirements midway through the yellow and most certainly in the orange.

[/ QUOTE ]Page #? I can't remember this even a little bit. Perhaps it's been too long since I've read it.

fasteddy1970 · #10 12-20-2006, 05:37 PM

Rob: Yea he says to do that with small pairs in suited conn. but he also suggests playing certain high pairs (I'm supposing he means 99 to jj a bit harder and also calling with more big cards. That's the part I'm having a problem with. Should I be opening K-Js in early P or calling a 5 bet raise with A-J and neglecting to follow the gap concept . He was so specific in many parts of the book but left that one without any.