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#1
12-20-2006, 03:07 PM
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Stud8 or Razz??
This may or may not be a lame question, but I thought I'd put it out there in either case....
I'm trying to decide what the next form of poker I should learn is. I'm arbitrarily narrowing it down to Stud8 or Razz. My primary goal is to tackle the form of poker than will increase my overall poker skills the most, with a important secondary goal of making a profit (of course!). I currently play mainly shorthanded limit hold'em, with some Stud High thrown in when I want a change of pace. Right now I'm leaning towards Stud8. I think the hi/low aspect of it will present me with situations I've never been exposed to in the past. Plus I already own Zee's "High-Low-Split Poker." For those of you who have play both, what advice would you give me? Which form of poker will teach me the most - Stud8 or Razz? Is there another form I should be considering? Any thoughts at all will be helpful.... Thanks in advance, The Wolf 
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#3
12-20-2006, 06:16 PM
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Re: Stud8 or Razz??
I feel like Razz is a good game for learning general poker concepts because many situations are simplified. Everyone is going for almost the same hands, so analyzing dead cards is more straight-forward. And I think you can pick up elements of an opponents playing style faster than in other forms.
Also, the low-limit razz games on Pokerstars are very soft, so it'll be good for your bankroll. As a caveat though, I should say that I haven't played a ton of Stud8, so I can't comment on which game has softer competition. Anyone have an opinion on this?
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#5
12-20-2006, 10:28 PM
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Re: Stud8 or Razz??
Sklansky cites razz as the best game for illustrating a lot of poker concepts, so it's probably a good one to learn. I consider myself pretty proficient at stud/8 and kind of a beginner at razz. That said, I didn't start winning online until I quit playing stud/8, and I usually do pretty well in the smaller razz games. Stud/8 games just aren't as good as, well, pretty much anything else online. I do think that Stars will have stud/8 in years to come but that razz will die out for the most part.
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#7
12-21-2006, 03:14 AM
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Re: Stud8 or Razz??
I would say stud 8 because, honestly, from what I've seen there just isn't that much to razz. It's not hard to see why Sklansky advocates it, it's pretty much a purely mathematical game. The fact that it's lowball means the other player's hand is super easy to evaluate and there can't be any hidden surprises like rolled trips in stud. Based on my online razz experience, the key to this game is basically having a better intuition/understanding of starting hand combinations, e.g. "We're 5-handed A Queen on my left brought it in, a 6 to my immediate right raised on a steal, which means little more than he doesn't have 2 paints in the hole. I have (T8)5. What % equity does my hand have versus his range?" or "We're on 5th street, I have a made 9, he has 763 on his board. What is the likelihood he has paired, and what pot odds are sufficient for me to call down?" It seems to me hand reading makes up a relatively small part of the package needed for success. It's more of an accumulation of small advantages for the most part, with the exception of basically free money when your opponent decides to draw more or less dead. Of the two games online now, I'd say razz is the more profitable, and it's not particularly close. It is super boring and mechanical to play, though. The only entertainment it offers is laughing at how bad others play.
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#9
12-21-2006, 01:43 PM
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Re: Stud8 or Razz??
Thanks for all of the replies, folks - it's given me a lot to think about. It's looking like Stud8 gets the nod for the learning experience, but currently Razz has the advantage for those that like the monies....
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#10
12-21-2006, 07:50 PM
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Re: Stud8 or Razz??
It's also worth considering that if you learn razz first, you'll reach a level of proficiency in a new game a little quicker.
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