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#1
12-20-2006, 03:47 AM
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$3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
Sorry in advance for the paragraph form of this post. I haven't figured out the hand converter yet.
I was just 6 handed in a $3.40 STT on pokerstars. BB and I are about tied for 2nd with $2500 in chips. With blinds at 25/50, I pick up AKo in middle position and raise it up to 5 times the BB, to $250. I get two callers, the button and the BB. Flop comes AJ6, all spades. BB bets $150 and I raise it to $700, trying to make him pay to draw to a flush. Button folds, BB calls, turn comes another ace and I move all in, thinking he either has a lower pocket pair or the last ace with a weaker kicker, though I was worried about AJ. But mostly I felt alright because a lot of people at this level will call with junk or a flush draw here. BB calls and turns over 9-6 of spades. Bwuh. He called a 5BB preflop raise with 96 of spades? How do I defend against this? It's idiotic, but also dangerous because it makes me wonder if I should just start peddling the nuts, which I'd think is a little too passive, even at this level. Plus, the larger question, if I'm in 2nd, 6 handed at a loose table, should I just fold AK here? AK is an underdog against any pair and only 60-40, 65-35, against any random hand. If I'm decent in chips at a loose table, and think my chances of making the money are better than, say, 50%, should I really commit a lot of chips with this hand? I guess I could come in cheaply and try to hit the flop big, but that seems like a chip drain with 5 callers at a loose table. 
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#2
12-20-2006, 04:34 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
joke thread?
BBV im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing.
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#4
12-20-2006, 04:51 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
Flop comes AJ6, all spades [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] BB calls and turns over 9-6 of spades [/ QUOTE ] he is obv a cheater and you should report him
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#5
12-20-2006, 05:16 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces.
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#6
12-20-2006, 05:26 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces. [/ QUOTE ] so you want to fold good hands against bad players with worse hands....because you dont want to get bad beat, essentially. think about that for a while
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#7
12-20-2006, 05:39 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces. [/ QUOTE ] u arent playing a sattelite though. 1st gets 50% of the prize pool, 2nd 30%, 3rd, 20%.
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#8
12-20-2006, 05:44 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces. [/ QUOTE ] so you want to fold good hands against bad players with worse hands....because you dont want to get bad beat, essentially. think about that for a while [/ QUOTE ] Nah, that oversimplifies. It's a statistical problem. Look again at the above example with the aces. If you'd play them in that case, you're playing incorrectly.
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#9
12-20-2006, 05:45 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces. [/ QUOTE ] so you want to fold good hands against bad players with worse hands....because you dont want to get bad beat, essentially. think about that for a while [/ QUOTE ] Nah, that oversimplifies. It's a statistical problem. Look again at the above example with the aces. If you'd play them in that case, you're playing incorrectly. [/ QUOTE ] yes but you are misapplying this concept rather badly
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#10
12-20-2006, 05:50 AM
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Re: $3.40: Too loose to respect a preflop raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] im sure you have enough common sense to realize that you dont always get stacked by a flush in this spot, and you shouldnt focus on one hand against a player who can have a huge range. you beat the majority of his holdings here, one showdown means nothing. [/ QUOTE ] The larger idea I was getting at here was that should I really be committing chips with this hand with a decent chip stack and a 50%+ chance of getting in the money. It's like this example given at the end of some poker book i was reading recently (Harrington 2 maybe)-- if you're in a satellitte that awards 3 people with seats in a larger satellite and everyone else gets nothing, and say 3 people have 4500 in chips and 2 have around 500. One of the 4500 chips goes all in and you look down and see pocket aces. The correct play here is to FOLD if you consider your chances of finishing in the top 3 to be better than 80% or whatever favorite you are with your aces. [/ QUOTE ] so you want to fold good hands against bad players with worse hands....because you dont want to get bad beat, essentially. think about that for a while [/ QUOTE ] Nah, that oversimplifies. It's a statistical problem. Look again at the above example with the aces. If you'd play them in that case, you're playing incorrectly. [/ QUOTE ] yes but you are misapplying this concept rather badly [/ QUOTE ] i agree. the concepts of satellites dont apply to non-satellite tournaments such as this, and i still would not pass up on playing hands like AKo for an open in the midgame with a good stack against bad players who put in lots of money with bad hands. this applies to basiaclly every poker situation, and as stated, since the principles you mentioned of satellite play do not apply in any way here, you should be playing these hands. as far as the way you played the actual hand, i wouldnt be opening myself up *quite* as much as you did eg. opening for 5x PF but regardless, you need to be willing to put money in with big hands even if its possible that you are beat some of the time. the whole idea is maximising equity and money earned, not pots won, and putting money in in a situation as you describe in this setting is most definitely +EV and passing on spots like this is bad.
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