10NL FR: Getting reraised after Reraise with QQ PF

[trontron]

Villain was 46.7 / 0 / 1 on 45 hands. no specific reads, but it was his first preflop raise. i was playing normal (about 20 / 7)

is folding here correct? or should i reraise at this level? i assumed, that against such a passive opponent, a 3bet must mean QQ+. or is this wrong at this level?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($5.34)
UTG ($1.97)
UTG+1 ($2.31)
MP1 ($1.04)
MP2 ($6.96)
CO ($1.96)
Button ($4.23)
SB ($4.73)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $0.08</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $0.08, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $0.32</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $0.66</font>, Button folds, Hero folds

thanks

[ihtfp]

See a flop here. You don't have enough hands on this guy to assume he's so tight this can only be QQ-AA. I think more like TT-AA, AK.

[eviljeff]

even if you knew he only had AA or KK you should call here. do you see why?

[danicalifornia]

This is some good example for implied odds here.

This guy did not reraise enough to justify that lay down.

About 1 time in 8 you will flop a queen without him flopping an ace. If you can be sure to stack him when that happens, this is a sure call. Pure odds problem.

You have to call 0.32 $ here but ur focus is on your opponets entire stack.

[eigenvalue]

(1) He will have AA or sometimes KK for sure.
(2) But he made a huge blunder in minraising You.
(3) If You flop a Q, You stack him with his overpair.
(4) The math: Your chance of flopping a Q is close to 1/8. You have to put in $0.34 to see a flop. You loose 7x$0.34 on average (if You fold every time You don't flop a Q) and You win $5.34 every time You flop a Q (assuming no K or A appears at the same time). 7x0.34 is by far less than 1x$5.34
(5) Conclusion: You call him. On the turn, You move all-in if a Q appears without a K or A appearing. In any other case You fold the turn.

[Petter]

[ QUOTE ]

(5) Conclusion: You call him. On the turn, You move all-in if a Q appears without a K or A appearing. In any other case You fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Conclusion: You call him. On the flopp, You move all-in if a Q appears. In any other case You fold the flopp.
This is what I would do anyway

[trontron]

thank you for the replies!

(of course,) i'm aware of the implied odds and about the 5/10 rule. the problem is, it wasn't a minraise. i have to call .34 and after the call, i have 4.68 left.
at the same time, my odds of catching a Q without appearing a King or an Ace on the flop are less than 10% (if my calculation is correct, it's a little over 9%). if a king or an ace appears, i have to fold my hand, if he raises. if a king or an ace appears on the turn (and i'm not already all-in), i'm in a really really akward situation.

my stack (after the call) is 13.7 times bigger than the call amount. i have to win more than 11 times the raise-amount to make it an EV+ call (so more or less, i have to double-up). i think, that should be possible when he really holds AA or KK and if my Q appears on the flop (whitout an A or K). but i still think it's quite a thin call.

what do you think?

another question: eigenvalue said "He will have AA or sometimes KK for sure."; ihtfp and eviljeff don't think so. what are your opinions about this? is AA / KK a too close range? or is it justified?

ps: i don't want to appear ungrateful in any way! i'm very grateful for your inputs and always want to improve my game. i'm just not sure that the implied odds make this an easy call.

[ben wb]

It is barely more than a minraise, you should definitely call. If the flop is KQx then you shouldn't be afraid to go all in on that flop, he'll have AA more than KK. Once you call his raise there will already be about $1.10 in the pot (not sure what the rake would be) and I think if you hit your set you will make at least another $2 on average, often you will stack him.

This isn't 10NL btw.