A Call

[James.]

in keeping with my holiday tradition of posting boring hands just because i want to, here's another for our viewing pleasure.

the site: Full Tilt Poker
the game: 8/16 FR LHE
the players:
me
villain A. a TAG
villain B. a goofass in the BB

i open raise with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the MP2, villain A 3bets right behind me, folds to villain B in BB who calls two, i call.

Flopsome small bets): 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB donks it, i call...

[Allday Everyday]

I think the flop call is good. I think it's likely the TAG will raise here. Then I think you need to reraise. Unless BB 3-bets. In that case I would call planning to raise the turn.

In general, it looks like a good board for a slowplay. I think you're highly likely to be ahead and seem unlikely to get outdrawn.

[TripleH68]

You must be going for the check-raise both players on the turn maneuver. I raise a glass of tequila to this attempt. Because I like raising the flop and hoping TAG comes along better than check/3-betting the flop, which is like electrocuting your opponents with a transistor radio. Huh?

[Harv72b]

By goofass do you mean LAG? Maniac? Just plain unpredictable?

I dunno...if VilA is paying attention & knows BB sucks in that way in which he sucks, you're still fairly likely to get 3banged if you go ahead and raise the flop. Thereby setting you up for the ultrasexy turn check/raise...unless, of course, VilA has AK or something & opts for the free card.

It's a double-edged sword when you're stuck between a donk & a TAG. Any line that involves you calling the flop & raising the turn, especially if you call a raise somewhere on the flop, pretty much screams "flopped set". But at the same time you don't want the TAG dumping his overcards on the flop when he has them, and you likewise don't want to let him see too cheap a river. And while we're at it I guess we can't really rule out a hand like 87 or 54 for the BB.

I go ahead and pop it immediately & hope that the TAG has enough of a hand to play back at me.

[HoneyBadger]

[ QUOTE ]
You must be going for the check-raise both players on the turn maneuver. I raise a glass of tequila to this attempt. Because I like raising the flop and hoping TAG comes along better than check/3-betting the flop, which is like electrocuting your opponents with a transistor radio. Huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
Good. I'm not the only one tipsy.

[Allday Everyday]

[ QUOTE ]
You must be going for the check-raise both players on the turn maneuver.

[/ QUOTE ]
At this stage of the hand, planning this move would be less than good IMO. If the TAG does in fact raise, we call, then it gets checked to him, I think there are so many factors that could cause him to check through the turn...

I don't think we should put the TAG on a really powerful hand. Preflop he could have been doing an isolation reraise agaist our late position open raise. Overcards seem likely IMO. If he does raise the flop, he could be planning to check through UI.

You think the flop call-raise should give our hand away? Perhaps this doesn't matter so much here given the BB is a goof.

[ncboiler]

Call all day. No reason at all to raise this. Villain A is probably raising with an overpair and could very well fold with a hand like a/q or a/k if you raise. Calling then sets up a good turn provided goofass checks, you check, villain A bets goofass calls and you raise.

[Bluffoon]

I would like a call better if you were closing the action.

Stuck in between it is too hard/risky to trap them both for two so I am going to pop the flop and hope its a party.

[meep_42]

Is villain really going to raise here with whiffed overcards that much against 2 players? Am I that weak for only rarely attempting that?

If the TAG behind you has a hand like AK/AQ, he may come along if you raise, thinking you may be isolating the goofball with a worse/chopping A or small PP -- he's almost certainly going to give you action with an overpair, though.

I think it all rests upon just how much you think he's going to raise whiffed overs here, since I'd imagine it's about 50/50 he's got a PP Tens and up versus AK/AQ/the small chance of AJs or KQs or some other random holding that doesn't amount to much. If he cold calls a raise with his whiffed overs even half as much as he raises them (when you call), you're making more on a raise than a call.

-d

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
By goofass do you mean LAG? Maniac? Just plain unpredictable?

[/ QUOTE ]

i mean he just does goofy stuff. generally passive, but executes the classic donk bet with pocket 4s to perfection. draws to bottom two pair, any straight, etc. and so on. generally a good guy to have around, but just obviously a poor player.