KK nasty board

[Dane S]

CO is 58/4 and dumb postflop, Button is 58/12.5 and also random and dumb. Am I doing alright so far? I considered calling the flop 3bet and trying to raise a blank turn, but I was too worried about Button checking behind as he seemed the type to randomly do that with both draws and pairs alike. Is there any option besides a turn bet/call that is worth considering?

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (10SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
Hero...

[ILOVEPOKER929]

I prefer calling the flop 3 bet and seeing how the initial flop raiser reacts. If the flop raiser just calls the 3bet, I would then plan on donking a blank turn card. If the first flop raiser caps the flop I am not taking any aggressive action on the turn unless I hit.

Given that you capped the flop, your turn play is close between checking and calling or bet/calling. Im not sure it matters that much which line you take here and I can see valid arguments for both cases

[gehrig]

[ QUOTE ]

I prefer calling the flop 3 bet and seeing how the initial flop raiser reacts. If the flop raiser just calls the 3bet, I would then plan on donking a blank turn card. If the first flop raiser caps the flop I am not taking any aggressive action on the turn unless I hit.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is really bad

if:
- initial raiser caps 20% of the time
- when he doesn't cap u lose .75 sb by not getting in a 4th bet 3ways

then that puts a value of the information u gain by UTG+1 capping at nearly 4sb. uhhh no

the only reason to just call the 3bet is if u think the 3bettor has u easily beat or so u can protect ur hand on the turn

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I prefer calling the flop 3 bet and seeing how the initial flop raiser reacts. If the flop raiser just calls the 3bet, I would then plan on donking a blank turn card. If the first flop raiser caps the flop I am not taking any aggressive action on the turn unless I hit.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is really bad

if:
- initial raiser caps 20% of the time
- when he doesn't cap u lose .75 sb by not getting in a 4th bet 3ways

then that puts a value of the information u gain by UTG+1 capping at nearly 4sb. uhhh no

the only reason to just call the 3bet is if u think the 3bettor has u easily beat or so u can protect ur hand on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Gehrig, I dont know where you get your numbers but if youre reguarly cap/leading with this hand on this board, you will simply be throwing a party for the other players involved.

Once the action goes raise-3bet on this board by two nonmaniacs, the heros hand loses a lot of value. Enough value that its certainly not worth capping against most opponents. Calling the 3bet and donking a non turn Ace/heart/King/Queen/Eight is certainly a viable strategy.

[gehrig]

[ QUOTE ]
Once the action goes raise-3bet on this board by two nonmaniacs, the heros hand loses a lot of value. Enough value that its certainly not worth capping against most opponents. Calling the 3bet and donking a non turn Ace/heart/King/Queen/Eight is certainly a viable strategy.

[/ QUOTE ]
these are the differences between ur line and capping:

- when UTG+1 has a crap hand he only has to put in 3bets
- u gain the information of whether or not UTG+1 would rather 3 or 4 bets go in

when UTG+1 doesn't cap u have way more than ur fair share of equity. there is no way that the information u gain is ever worth nearly as much as the bets u lose

[gehrig]

altho i will say i was being retarded when i figured the 4sb figure in my first post. u gain the information every hand as opposed to only every time he caps, so the information has a lower break-even point

[Kwaz]

I think you've got the equity for the cap on the flop. I don't think this is a call and donk a safe turn scenario as most cards that likely hurt your hand, in most cases, give you redraws.

[TheBlackKing]

I think after this flop and this flop action you have some catching up to do, so why cao the flop ?
Even on the turn I think playing it passively is the best.

[redbeard]

i'm with the black king on this one. there is a pretty darn good chance you are behind here. i'd say wait for the turn and see what that brings. the ace (even though it is a heart and generates more outs for you) almost certainly puts you behind so why not just check here and see how it plays out calling with odds on the flush draw when faced with pretty much any amount.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
altho i will say i was being retarded when i figured the 4sb figure in my first post. u gain the information every hand as opposed to only every time he caps, so the information has a lower break-even point

[/ QUOTE ]

Please stop talking about information. The bottom line is when the action goes raise-3bet here on this board, our hand is not looking too hot unless atleast one of these guys is crazy. That is the main reason I'm not capping here. The fact that calling a 3bet will allow the hero to can some valuable information is just an ancillary benefit to me.