My First Drunken Post - Slowplaying Donk's Law

[Xhad]

Sorry, not any nutty grammar here; I backspace as I type so all of my typos get deleted immediately.

Anyway this was inspired by a recent post from someone asking if he should cap a river with like the 3rd nuts. It's probably not that important but still something worth knowing, especially if you move up to small stakes.

Xhad's rule of donk slowplays: If a donk checkraises the turn, and his entire postflop line appears to have been based around checkraising the turn, he flopped the nuts (or a boat/set).

Example: UTG pfr, you 3bet AA and UTG caps, flop is Q73. He checkcalls the flop and checkraises the turn, it's QQ. In fact, I don't even bet the turn anymore because the other hand in his range is a whiffed Ax which is drawing dead and won't call the turn.

Example: You raise AK UTG, SB and BB both call. BB donks K73 flop, you raise, SB coldcalls and BB folds. SB checkraises a 4 turn, HE FLOPPED A SET. I fold this against some known players nowadays.

Example: You raise xx and like five people including the blinds call. SB donks a T42 rainbow flop, BB calls, you raise, nobody raises behind you and the blinds call. Turn 7, BB checkraises you. FLOPPED SET, OR MAYBE 77. You still probably have to pay this off just because the pot is so big, but don't 3bet AA.

[bennyhana]

workd to you muthsa fuskaing mutha!!!!!!!!!

2 christamas opartys tongiht, wo u m tibghtr there withcha!!!

[marchron]

nh. Finally someone else who can still type even while drunkern. I thought I was the only one.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
nh. Finally someone else who can still type even while drunkern. I thought I was the only one.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are more of us than you think.

Good post, Not-C-had, especially drunkern. While I have held this as a truism for a looooooong time, I've never bothered to codify it into a Law. Perhaps it should be posited as a theorem, however, and can stand next to Clarkmeister.

[TripleH68]

WORD.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (11.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.70 BB

[Xhad]

Hrm. That's technically not an example because it's not a c/r, but it is true that his flop call was solely to set up the turn raise so you're probably screwed.

[ckj]

ull Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $6.05
UTG+1: $16.50
MP1: $7.95
MP2: $12.10
MP3: $20.70
CO: $21.35
Button: $8.70
SB: $16.05
Hero: $9.75

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#00688B">MP1 raises</font>, 5 folds, <font color="#00688B">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.4SB, 2 players)
<font color="#00688B">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.2BB, 2 players)
<font color="#00688B">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#00688B">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.2BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Results:
Final pot: 7.2BB


What about this one? Villian totally had <font color="white"> Q9o </font> here and I got a pretty sweet read out of it. Although I agree with you 90% of the time it means they flopped a monster.

[MrWookie]

[ QUOTE ]
Hrm. That's technically not an example because it's not a c/r, but it is true that his flop call was solely to set up the turn raise so you're probably screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm going to accept this law, I need to see examples where there are turn c/r's on which the donk's line is not based on setting up. IOW, show me a "safe" turn c/r, because I know they exist.

[Xhad]

Well, the first obvious reason is if the turn might hit his hand (particularly if there were other reasons he might call the flop). Like in the third example if you make the turn a Q then maybe he just turned top pair. Or in the first example if the turn were a K instead of a total brick.

Another possibility is if Villain bet the flop, you raised and he called/cr'ed (or even if he cbet, got called, and then screwplayed). Top pair does these things all the time.

Another one to consider is something like you pfr in a multiway pot, and someone calls a K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop and then c/r's a T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] turn. He could have just called the flop because his hand wasn't good enough to raise, then picked up some draw and decided to represent the K.

[Xhad]

Oh, there's also the "raise to represent the scare card" c/r. Like in the games where I play, if a hand goes someone limps, I pfr, flop is T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and the SB c/cs the flop (allowing the limper to overcall), then the turn is the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and SB checkraises, it's a spade draw more often than not.