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#1
12-15-2006, 12:39 PM
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Zero tolerance policies
Chicago Tribune
Cliffs notes: 8th grader finds a pellet gun in the bathroom, turns it in. School expels him for a year for "possessing" the gun. Analysis: 
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#4
12-15-2006, 12:46 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
That's a horribly misleading Cliff's notes.
Officials from Troy School District 30C say there is more to the story, but that they cannot elaborate on the case without violating Ryan's privacy. Also "In this case, the board's final motion was to have the student assigned to homebound study instead of expulsion, where no educational services would be offered at all," Schochat said. Not only was he not expelled, but it's hard to see what other options the school has. It's possible the kid inocently found the thing, and it's possible he didn't. Having a policy that allows students to carry weapons around without consequences doesn't seem like a terribly good idea.
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#5
12-15-2006, 12:52 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
[ QUOTE ]
Not only was he not expelled, but it's hard to see what other options the school has. It's possible the kid inocently found the thing, and it's possible he didn't. [/ QUOTE ] No, it's very probable he innocently found the thing and slightly possible he didn't. Besides, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The only "option" the school has is to treat him as innocent. Otherwise it's just a kangaroo court. The school has to prove his guilt, not the other way around.
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#6
12-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
No, it's very probable he innocently found the thing and slightly possible he didn't. Besides, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The only "option" the school has is to treat him as innocent. Otherwise it's just a kangaroo court. The school has to prove his guilt, not the other way around. That's hardly the case. School's aren't court systems, nor should they be. If they had him arrested, then the government would have to prove his guilt. "Innocent until proven guilty" isn't and has never been some overarching universal principle in the US, it's not a unversal right, is a right only when applied to the legal system. Of course it's a "kangaroo court" because it doesn't resemble a court in any way, it's a school making a regulatory decision. Edit: Not to mention, he *was* proen guilty by having a weapon when the policy proscribed having one.
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#7
12-15-2006, 01:00 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
[ QUOTE ]
Having a policy that allows students to carry weapons around without consequences doesn't seem like a terribly good idea. [/ QUOTE ] Well having a policy that harshly punishes kids for TURNING IN dangerous things they find is way way worse.
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#8
12-15-2006, 01:04 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
[ QUOTE ]
99.99% of zero tolerance policies are equivalent to: We are too retarded or lazy to use reason or common sense. [/ QUOTE ] It's much worse than that. These policies substitute rigid rules for judgement. The reason for filling high positions with quality people is that you expect them to have good judgement. These rules remove any real opportunity for considered opinion and appeal to the facts in exchange for bulletproof decisions no lawyer can crack. There can be no discrimination if those 'in charge' can't choose.
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#9
12-15-2006, 01:07 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
Well having a policy that harshly punishes kids for TURNING IN dangerous things they find is way way worse. I don't think so. What if it was a pipe bomb instead of a pellet gun? Encourage the kid to pick it up and carry it around? There was a rational policy "children shouldn't transport weapons". He violated that policy, perhaps innocently, perhaps not, but lets assume innocently, and he was punished less severely than the policy dictates as a result. Not sure what the problem is. I realize the whole reason this is a news story at all is to evoke a "that's not fair!" response from readers, but in reality, it is fair. Firstly, he's an 8th grader, not a 4 year old. Secondly he had hte option of just telling a staff member there was a gun somewhere. Is the theory that really that instead of just telling someone immediately that he instead innocently decided to walk around with the gun for 15 minutes and that there should be no consequence?
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#10
12-15-2006, 01:08 PM
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Re: Zero tolerance policies
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Not to mention, he *was* proen guilty by having a weapon when the policy proscribed having one. [/ QUOTE ] Spoken like a true Administrator. Then all the idiots in the middle can say "We are just following policy". Did you miss the part of the article that said they found the pellet guns owner and shipped him off to a concentration.. err "alternative" school?
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