A8s, pairs the 8 on a paired board

Harkon · #1 12-14-2006, 01:02 PM

Stars 0.25/0.50, 6-handed.

Folded to me in the CO, I raise it up with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

The SB is loose and passive preflop and has the tendency to bet weak hands on the flop whether there was a raise preflop or not. Also saw him complete the SB earlier, and then check his flopped set all the way to the river heads-up with the BB (so either he didn't look at the board or he likes to slowplay at least occasionally).

Flop (5 SB): T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB bets. I think for a few seconds and conclude he probably does not have a ten, given what I've seen from him earlier. He could have a straight draw, 99, 8 or an underpair. I haven't seen pure bluffs from him. I raise, he calls. I feel fairly good about my hand.

Turn (4.5 BB): (T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB bets and I'm a bit confused. I call. He could have a king, though I don't really buy it, and a ten still isn't completely out of question.

River (6.5 BB): (T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. A couple of straights got there. SB bets, and I call partly because I'm curious, and partly because I felt there was some chance my hand was still good even though I'm having the toughest time putting him on a hand I beat. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Preflop was no-brainer for me, but if you think it sucks... please explain it elaborately. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

On the flop, I raised mostly for value because I think I have the best hand most of the time and partially for information, if he 3-bets I'm probably screwed.

Turn. Meh. At this point I basically decide to go to showdown. He keeps betting at me and I don't believe him. Raising seems pointless, and based on my read (bets a lot of weak hands) I can't find a fold.

Any comments?

Marquis · #2 12-14-2006, 01:09 PM

On a paired board vs. a stop n go from a player like this you're usually beaten pretty handily.

justkevin · #3 12-14-2006, 02:06 PM

Looks like you're way behind, but given your read, but I've observed loose players make plays like these with weak hands like underpair hoping it looks like they've got trips.

I'd probably call down, hoping he's being an idiot, but I think the smart move is fold to the turn donk. The pot size at that point isn't worth it.

As for the villain had, I'll say 66 if you won, or K8 if you lost. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

marchron · #4 12-14-2006, 02:42 PM

Fold to the turn donk. A stop-and-go like that is almost always trips by someone who is either afraid of or otherwise doesn't like check/raising, or a Kx that donked the flop for the hell of it, peeled to your raise and just overtook you.

whoisthedrizzle · #5 12-14-2006, 03:10 PM

I think I fold on the turn, against a loose passive the bet/call/donk line is trips alot more than it's something you beat.

JerBear77 · #6 12-14-2006, 03:54 PM

I find a fold on the Turn here given the action. At this level, this is >90% at least a T here if not better. An 8, with a smaller kicker (which your ultimately looking for here) will not donk you at this turn.

I can't see your hand having much value on this turn.

fretelöo · #7 12-14-2006, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn. Meh. At this point I basically decide to go to showdown. He keeps betting at me and I don't believe him. Raising seems pointless, and based on my read (bets a lot of weak hands) I can't find a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know the feeling. But just believe him. It's just saving you money. loose-passives bet out as a bluff if noone bets before them. But they don't bet again if raised. It doesn't matter if he caught the K, or had a T, - you beat only a small PP and if he also has an eight. It's not worth it.

You've done your bit: raised PF and raised him on the flop. If he still likes his hand - believe him.

Harkon · #8 12-14-2006, 11:33 PM

Thanks for the comments, everbody.

During the hand my spider-sense was tingling big time and I caught him firing three barrels with complete air (Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]), something I hadn't seem him do before, patted myself to the back and moved on to the next hand.

Later on I started thinking about the hand and if I really had enough to make the turn call, and the consensus seems to be I don't. I find it hard to argue with.

Xhad · #9 12-15-2006, 12:21 AM

If you're going to continue on the turn, you should raise. Oddly enough, this is one of the few spots you might fold better hands but get called by worse ones. Take the free showdown if flat called, fold if he 3bets the turn or donks river.

FatedEquity · #10 12-15-2006, 12:39 AM

*grunch*

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop was no-brainer for me, but if you think it sucks... please explain it elaborately.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks fine to me. No complaints here.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn. Meh. At this point I basically decide to go to showdown. He keeps betting at me and I don't believe him.

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation fits the conditions of a turn raise/free showdown play: you can get away from your hand easily if it backfires, and your opponent is passive so you are unlikely to be 3-bet.

An exception is if he'll likely bet into you on the river regardless of your raise; in that case it is probably better to just call down.