20/180, To what degree can I assume villain is logical?

[Cornell Fiji]

I am completely new to 20/180s so I am interested from the regulars in these games about the average opponent in these games

My thoughts in white, read after you vote.

<font color="white"> Clearly a logical opponent is not pushing a queen/set/or baby flush here. This looks like someone who can't call me if he leads and I push. This also looks like someone who will not like a lot of turn cards. I don't think he is second leveling me here but how often is he betting a weak queen without a spade?
</font>

Just got moved 5 hands ago. 75 players left.

Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button (t1385)
SB (t1420)
<font color="#C00000">BB (t1890)</font>
UTG (t5680)
UTG+1 (t3550)
MP1 (t4030)
<font color="#C00000">Hero (t2830)</font>
MP3 (t1065)
CO (t2077)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls t200.

Flop: (t650) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t1590 (All-In)</font>, Hero...

[JoseGonzlez]

hard to type cast the typical 180.

in general though it seems they try to check raise monsters.

so im guessing he does not have a flush.

that leaves a weak queen, or the ace of spades as thier most likely hodlings. though i suppose 10s and 9s are possible.

so i guess when you consider all the combinations he could have my guess is 60 percent of the time? but he will suck out some percentage of the time. so i dont know id probably fold this.

calling overpushes has generallh been unprofitable for me in the 20/180s

[Geoff Lightning]

You don't really have to overthink this one. You can't be sure you're good here, and if you're not, you have 2 outs at most to catch up, and if you're actually ahead, your opponent stands to have a lot of outs. As it is, you're not getting good pot odds to make the call. He made the move and you have to fold it.

[Plus1Plus1]

I've played a fair share of 20/180's, and I would fully expect to see a Q+ weak kicker, no spade.

[shaundeeb]

easy fold.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
easy fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping that you would reply shaun, being that you are a legit 180 man baller.

Can you put an unknown 20/180 villain on a range here? Is this almost always QX no spade?

[neiliano]

Easy fold, I think this is usually one of 3 hands, Asx Ksx or Qx no spade. Obviously best case scenario u have to dodge 12outs and worst case and probably most common you have to catch 2 outs.

This hand would be tougher if Hero had Js, because then you've got a lot more equity against a Q with no spade and this may make this a call, given hero is getting about 1.4 to 1. The pot odds against these ranges would change dramatically I reckon.

Do you think its a call with Js in heros hand?

[mornelth]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played a fair share of 20/180's, and I would fully expect to see a Q+ a spade.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like 80% of the time easily.

[durkahdurkah]

The hand above is an easy fold, as it's just too damn likely he has a Q in hand. You are either slightly ahead or way behind here.

but in regards to this:

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think its a call with Js in heros hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

This situation becomes much closer and I'd definitely consider calling.

[Jeff76]

Easy fold. Villain almsot never has a flush here, but that doesn't matter. Either

1) Villain has a queen and you are waaay behind
2) Villain has a high spade (probably) and you are flipping

I don't think the stakes particularly matter in this case. Most people see this flop and think 1 of 2 things: "ZOMG I have a big DRAW!" or "ZOMG HE has a big draw and I've got to push him off it and protect my hand!"

Calling hoping for a race is not a good idea.