Overplayed AK?

godgiven · #1 12-13-2006, 02:58 AM

Villain is a solid tag - 21/15/2.87

I know this is a pretty standard hand, but overcard situations like this come up often and I'd like to understand how to play them correctly. I'm sure other newbies around here would too.

Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12SB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (10BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12BB

I feel like I should've saved the river bet, but every thing else is pretty standard. How well did I play this hand?

Oct0puz · #2 12-13-2006, 03:05 AM

What are you trying to achieve by betting this flop? Just c/c and hope to hit a K or A on the turn. And I don't think you have oods to call the turn, because he will have AA or KK too often. And what do you think you can beat on the river when you say that villain is a solid tag.

edit: When I think about it the turn call is probably very close. So a call may not be that bad.

godgiven · #3 12-13-2006, 03:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you trying to achieve by betting this flop? Just c/c and hope to hit a K or A on the turn. And I don't think you have oods to call the turn, because he will have AA or KK too often. And what do you think you can beat on the river when you say that villain is a solid tag.

edit: When I think about it the turn call is probably very close. So a call may not be that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet out on the flop to gauge whether he has overcards or a pp. He represented a pair and I called down until the river getting correct odds (if all were clean) to hit a pair.

Thinking about the hand in retrospect, I realize that his range was 10s+ and AK plus very rarely 99 and AQ. So in reality I had about 3.5 or 4 clean outs. Getting 8 to 1 on the turn, I called incorrectly being a 11.5 to 1 dog and collecting at most 2 more BBs on the river (and getting 3bet some of the time and lose).

Sooo.. seems like folding the turn would've been the thing to do?

Oct0puz · #4 12-13-2006, 03:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I bet out on the flop to gauge whether he has overcards or a pp

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see what use you have of this information if you decied to call down anyway.

Scary_Tiger · #5 12-13-2006, 03:51 AM

c/c flop c/f turn

poisonxfree · #6 12-13-2006, 03:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
c/c flop c/f turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Bullitos · #7 12-13-2006, 05:49 AM

check/call flop, betting out is useless. Fold the turn UI, you are only splitting with another AK and behind to almost everything else.

Milagro · #8 12-13-2006, 11:20 AM

I am a noob (at least playing short handed) so this could be a very instructive thread as playing overcards seems one of the most difficult situations in these games.

For me (in my less-than-10,000-hand wisdom) the first bit of information (besides the PT "read") is the out-of-position cap by UTG+1. For me this screams "premium holding" especially if he thinks you are a decent player (BTW any idea what he thinks of you??). Betting into the guy on the flop begs for a raise so I am sure you had a plan when he raised? What was it?

Going back to his impression of you "what do you think he thinks you have"? Could he put you on clubs, 88, AK, 99+ only, Ax suited, what??? What do our seasoned short-handed vets think if they are in UTG+1's situation where you capped preflop and are bet into on the flop? Knowing how others think here in UTG+1's spot would definitely be instructive for me.

For me (in Hero's place not UTG+1's) I probably just check and call one on this flop. Dare I call two if the action is UTG+1 bets and SB raises (making it 15:2 with the prospect of another raise) or do I fold in this situation? I can tell you my inclination is to fold in this situation. Is this weak??

I could go on (for example, how do I play this with the same actors and no preflop cap) and depending on the responses I might, but it would just be cool to have more discussion on this particular situation. Thanks.

bobhalford · #9 12-13-2006, 11:44 AM

As others have posted, the line you generally employ for this hand is c/c flop and c/f turn. This is very standard. You should get used to folding your unimproved overcards on the turn as you won't have enough money in the pot to merit continuing with your 6 tainted outs.

pmiranda.pt · #10 12-13-2006, 12:49 PM

Pre-flop: Standard play....always raise or re-raise with AK preflop.
Flop: Standard play...just probing the pré-flop raiser, he has hand that the flop did not destroyed.
Turn: Half played.....very good the free card try...but you should have folded on is bet.

you have 6 outs (7.6-1) and the pot is 8-1 not a good call.