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  #1  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:38 PM
Heine Heine is offline
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Default to value bet or not to value bet

New to the table, maybe 5th orbit. Really unsure if a river check is the right move. What do you guys think?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $1.50
UTG+1: $94.15
Hero: $49.25
Button: $50
SB: $85.45
BB: $63

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG calls all-in $1</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($8.25, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $5.25, Sidepot 1: $3)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8.25</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($24.75, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $5.25, Sidepot 1: $19.5)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $18</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($60.75, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $5.25, Sidepot 1: $55.5)
UTG+1 checks, Hero ????.

Results:
Final pot: $60.75
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:41 PM
Abramovic Abramovic is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

Allin.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:50 PM
AceLuby AceLuby is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I'm checking behind on this one, probably the worst card for you. I say not value bet, what hands do you beat that will call a value bet besides AJ? We have a lot of showdown value still.
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2006, 06:57 PM
Smilin' Smilin' is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I figure a plausible range is AJ; KJ; QJ; Adxd; maybe 56s or A2o. I don't see anything folding to a push with only $20 behind. So looks to me like you're slightly ahead and this is a thin value bet. With say $40 behind I'd be inclined to check.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:29 PM
Abramovic Abramovic is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I tend to think the river is a blank. Its very unlikely he has a 2 or 7, and you want to maximise the value out of AJ/KJ.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:51 PM
kerplunkNL kerplunkNL is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I got c/r on the river quite a few times tonight. I am biased to check behind. Wouldn't surprise if this is a very badly played turned flush.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2006, 12:39 AM
bozzer bozzer is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

As played check river. I am worried about a flush or a set on the flop. It's ballsy of him to check to you on the river if he does have that sort of hand, but you have shown a lot of strength.

I think I would have checked the turn and then called a normal river bet.
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2006, 12:55 AM
BomberMase BomberMase is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I would value bet this river. Your bets have told the villian that you like this hand. It seems if he had the flush he'd make sure you pay here. Based on the play so far it seems AJ KJ or maybe QQ are all plausible holdings and you'd like to extract value from them.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2006, 01:20 AM
johnc johnc is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

Given the board texture, I'm leaning towards a check. obviously many hands will play this way vs your aggression that you beat ie AJ, QQ, even TT (if you're up against someone who just can't fold) but I believe you'll also see non-nut flushes play the same way, bottom 2 w/34s or a turned or rivered set or fives or sixes. The Str8 w/ 78 or A2 might seem a bit far fetched esp vs a reasonable opponent but even though you've made their draw unprofitable doesn't mean they won't continue on and try to make it. Realize the board may look a bit too scary for your opponent to raise your aggressive betting and tell you they have a better hand but calling may not. You hand has good showdown value and I think you need to find a check here and save the value bets for less marginal situations when the board offers less possibilites for your opponent to be ahead.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2006, 03:47 AM
h0ser h0ser is offline
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Default Re: to value bet or not to value bet

I check behind here. I don't see many hands that you beat calling a value bet at this point so I don't think you're missing out on a whole lot by checking.
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