How did Rounders affect THEFAP sales?

[wisehandpoker]

Title says it all. I'm looking for some data on how Texas Hold'em For Advanced Players' sales were affected in the 18 months following the release of Rounders. If someone could point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it.

[benfranklin]

I would guess there is zero chance of any statistically significant results possible here.

First, 2+2 sales data is proprietary.

Even if you had that data, you have no way of establishing causality. You would have to do detailed research on other factors going on at the same time that might affect sales. Someone could as well argue that increasing interest in poker and an increase in book sales caused an increased demand for the movie.

More specifically, Rounders did not become highly popular until after the 21st century poker boom, fueled by the WPT and the Moneymaker WSOP. The classic statistical chicken and egg problem, AKA post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[wisehandpoker]

Thanks for the input ben. I agree with your comments about Rounders popularity as far as the general public is concerned, but I'm more interested in the effect the film had on the general gamer conciousness. I knew a lot of high level Magic players for whom the movie fueled interest in Hold'em directly, so I'm curious as to whether that phenomenon was widespread or restricted to the top mtg players who have since flourished in poker.

[Mason Malmuth]

I've already answered your question via email but we believe the effect was close to zero.

It's dificult to tell on HPFAP since in June 1999 we released the 21st Century edition which did effect sales. But our other books didn't show any change which we can attribute to the movie. You need to keep in mind that the movie was not popular and it didn't represent poker in a very positive way.

MM

[Cactus Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
I've already answered your question via email but we believe the effect was close to zero.

It's dificult to tell on HPFAP since in June 1999 we released the 21st Century edition which did effect sales. But our other books didn't show any change which we can attribute to the movie. You need to keep in mind that the movie was not very good.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
I've already answered your question via email but we believe the effect was close to zero.

It's dificult to tell on HPFAP since in June 1999 we released the 21st Century edition which did effect sales. But our other books didn't show any change which we can attribute to the movie. You need to keep in mind that the movie was not popular and it didn't represent poker in a very positive way.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

This surprises me. If I had seen Rounders at the time it came out I'm 80% sure I would have checked out RGP shortly thereafter, and from there found the way to your books within a year. As it is, my story was typical in that I only discovered cards several years later because of the WPT.

Everybody loves Rounders. I think it (perhaps unintentionally) portrays poker in a positive enough way, but it reinforces the stereotype poker is a game of tells and psychology. Maybe not your target audience on most books. But as I think about it more, perhaps you have a point, in that it does not present cardrooms in a positive way.

[Black winter day]

I don't get the Rounders thing anyway.
The movie is decent but not that good.
I watched it only after starting playing and i don't think general public will enjoy it as much as poker players.
Also, it really does portray poker players in negative way, as gamblers and lowlifes, who play in some illegal places and many of them cheat.

I was very surprised to find out that a lot of players started playing poker because of it.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get the Rounders thing anyway.
The movie is decent but not that good.

[/ QUOTE ]The thing that makes Rounders an interesting poker movie is that it doesn't feel the need to overly explain itself (even while the basic are covered so non-poker players can follow along, tons of poker terms are glossed over without any definition) which adds to the authenticity of the world being portrayed, and the unique fact that it doesn't end with a straight flush vs. quads/full house showdown. The "big hand" (AAA99 over AA999) is not rare enough that most HE playerse haven't experienced something similar.

It also presents poker as a skill game and portrays the hero as someone with integrity and worthy of respect trying to make it in a very tough and complex world. This is certainly the kind of thing that would cause people to gain some interest in the game.

Not nearly as much as some guy winning millions from a $40 "lottery ticket" though.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]

It also presents poker as a skill game and portrays the hero as someone with integrity and worthy of respect trying to make it in a very tough and complex world. This is certainly the kind of thing that would cause people to gain some interest in the game.


[/ QUOTE ]

The Johnny Chan scene alone contributed more players than anything in the rest of the movie could have scared away.

My friends and I do a poker night every once in a while. At the first one, we had Rounders playing on DVD in the background. Most of us, up to that point (we were in our mid-twenties), had not gambled more than $50 in our lifetime.

(Side notes: out of the 6 of us, I am the only 2+2 customer. Out of the 6 of us, only I and one other still play cards regularly. Poker boom is largely over in the U.S.)

[phydaux]

I just can't get past TeddyKGB carrying Oreos in a chip rack.

Take a look at that again. The Oreos are too big. They don't fit in a chip rack. So why would anyone do that except in a stupid movie?