River c/c or thin value bet??

[Super Villain]

I was playing at Ameristar in St. Charles MO and ran into a tricky situation.

I had just arrived at the table so I do not have many reads on most players// a couple are regulars there whom I recognized (not involved in this hand however) As always the table was playing very loose passive (as most live casino 3/6 games usually do.)

I am dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the sb. There are 5 limpers to me and I raised everyone calls and the flop is a delightful
J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I lead out and get 3 calls.
turn falls 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I bet again and get the pot heads up.
river is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
hero...

I am also open to suggestions about my play on the flop. Do i chech raise to thin the field, or just build a big pot w/ my monster. My main fear is that no one will bet and i will have missed an oppurtunity to get $$ in the pot.

As always thanks in advance any help is appreciated.

[WalkAmongUs]

you should check here. the river completes flush and puts 4 to a straight out. thats scary, especially against a loos-passive.

[knght311]

I would definitely CR the flop here....you dont want any callers here as they are getting huge odds with a flush or straight draw and even a gutshot has odds here if he is on the button.

EDIT: also if you are afraid that no one will bet on the flop that is even better for you to lead out on the turn, as it will give horrible odds to anyone on a draw at that point.

[Alex424]

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely CR the flop here....you dont want any callers here as they are getting huge odds with a flush or straight draw and even a gutshot has odds here if he is on the button. EDIT: also if you are afraid that no one will bet on the flop that is even better for you to lead out on the turn, as it will give horrible odds to anyone on a draw at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]


You have to bet the flop. There is no guarantee anybody will bet on the flop and you may give everybody a free card. CR only if sombody in late position always bets with nothing if everybody checks to him.

You have 3 of a kind - the flop is not too scary. You give up too much value by checking

River i would check call. You will probably only be called or raised if you bet by hand that beats you. Little value here

[Allday Everyday]

I would have thought there was value in a river bet with top set against the single opponent...

[HoneyBadger]

preflop good
flop good
turn good
river: b/f (he's passive right? If you can't fold, c/c. You only need to be good, what, 30% or so here. Perhaps even less. If you check he will bet anyway and you will call anyway. With c/c you allow him to check behind some two-pair hand, and bet all his flushes and straights. Don't fall for the illusion that c/c saves you money when you can fold with certainty to a raise. You do need be sure you can fold though. So if he's somewhat loose-aggressive or makes plays like this, you shouldn't b/f. But since you described them all as passive, and nobody did anything throughout the hand. He might not even raise his straight out of fear of the flush, he might not even raise the non-nut flush)

[Allday Everyday]

[ QUOTE ]
river: b/f (he's passive right? If you can't fold, c/c. You only need to be good, what, 30% or so here. Perhaps even less. If you check he will bet anyway and you will call anyway. With c/c you allow him to check behind some two-pair hand, and bet all his flushes and straights. Don't fall for the illusion that c/c saves you money when you can fold with certainty to a raise. You do need be sure you can fold though. So if he's somewhat loose-aggressive or makes plays like this, you shouldn't b/f. But since you described them all as passive, and nobody did anything throughout the hand. He might not even raise his straight out of fear of the flush, he might not even raise the non-nut flush)

[/ QUOTE ]
Folding after betting, at least in a 'normal' game, seems difficult. Beyond a bluff, I think there are other holdings the villain could (and even should ) raise that we beat...

[HoneyBadger]

There's a 4 straight and 3 hearts. He's (very) passive. He's not going to raise the river with 2 pair. I doubt he would raise a set (which he would've earlier)

The other day one of these guys checks behind on the river with a set of 3s, because the river was an ace and I raised preflop so I could possibly have AA. I laughed so hard.

[WalkAmongUs]

i'd have to have a very comfortable read on this player to be able to bet and fold to a raise. Generic small stakes player I check/call.

[Haupt_234]

If the HU villain on the river is passive, bet/fold and it isn't close.

Haupt_234