Plan for QQ?

[Roadstar]

(EDIT: Effective stacks $50, sorry about that)

50NL 6 max

SB is loose passive 50/2
MP is less so at 35/6

SB stacked me recently when I had KQ and he had TT on a KKT board.

Preflop:

Hero gets Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in CO

UTG limps, MP limps, Hero raises to $2.5, SB calls, UTG calls, MP calls

Flop

4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB donks $5, MP calls $5, PLAN FOR HERO?!?!?!?!?!


I'm thinking either call and push safe turn. Or pretty much push now.

Please help!

[avfletch]

Stack sizes?

[StukOnStupid]

I just call here and re-evaluate on the turn. If you get your stack in now, you aren't far ahead and you could be way behind.

Stuk

[Sir Winalot]

Stack sizes are essential here. But if you aren't super deep I shove right here.

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
I just call here and re-evaluate on the turn. If you get your stack in now, you aren't far ahead and you could be way behind.

Stuk

[/ QUOTE ]

88-JJ?

[Pokey]

What did UTG do on the flop?

I'm loving my hand and hating the board. There's no way I want to give a free card to a 6 or to spades, so when it comes back to me, I'm punishing the wicked and smiting my enemies. As has been said, without knowing stack sizes it's hard to say exactly what to do, but I'm probably making a roughly pot-sized bet, which should put roughly have my remaining stack into play. Then, I push any turn if checked to, and call any turn push if the card looks reasonably safe. If the turn is an 8, a 3, or a spade, I can probably fold to a push, especially given how passive my opponents are. Otherwise, I expect to get looked up by many hands that are much worse than mine.

Build the pot BEFORE they hit-or-miss. You're ahead in the long run, and you want to get paid off, which only happens when they've still got that oh-so-expensive feature to their hands: potential. They will talk themselves into calling bets that they shouldn't -- let them.

[Roadstar]

Thanks for the quick responses! Sorry effective stacks of $50.

Pokey - Hm you really made me rethink the call and reevaluate turn line. I think you're right that raising now gives them a better chance of chasing.

However, let me ask you this: What is required (hand, flop texture) where we call and bet harder on the turn on a safe card then?

Thanks,

[crookdimwit]

I don't like a call here. You're hand is very much at risk here. You could be in trouble letting either villain see a cheap turn card if they're drawing. You also don't want someone with an Ace or King to pair up on the turn. I think you need to raise here, which will pressure your opponents but not risk your whole stack.

With the preflop betting and two $5 bets, the pot is 17.50? I bet the post or close to it. Make it $18 or $20 or so to go... That still leaves you with about $30, but makes it a tougher call for someone to chase...

My gameplan from here?
- If you take down the pot here, great.
- If you get one or two calls, I'd push if a blank hit on the turn.
- If you get one or two calls and a spade or another straight card hits the board, slow down and fold to any heavy aggression...

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]

What is required (hand, flop texture) where we call and bet harder on the turn on a safe card then?


[/ QUOTE ]

For that to be my preferred line, I'd want a few of the following (not necessarily all of them):

1. Our stacks are quite deep relative to the pot, so that I can't easily get all-in without facing a hand that's definitely stronger than mine.

2. The board is much safer -- more "dry" -- than this one. Here, we've got a straight draw AND a flush draw, and that's spooky.

3. My opponent is hyperaggressive but capable of folding in the face of resistance. In that case, I'll let him do the betting, knowing that I'm more likely to pick off bluffs than get him to call with air.

4. Based on reads, I know my opponent is on an obvious draw, I know he'll call any bet now, and I know he'll call any bet on the turn. In that case, waiting is clearly the better choice.

5. My hand is stronger than this one. With A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I'd like a smooth-call better (still not tons, but more than with QQ), knowing that no overcards can fall to my hand and knowing that I've got a redraw even if the flush hits on the turn.

6. The hand is heads-up, making any particular scare card less likely to have completed my opponent's hand.

A few of the above list and I'd be more tempted to smooth-call. As it stands, this seems like a good time to make a pot-committing bet that denies my opponents proper chasing odds to hit their miracle cards.

One last point: with a hand as weak as QQ here, I'm more than happy to pick up the entire pot right now if they both fold. If I can get all-in on a safe turn I'm not miserable, but I'm not eager to go to a showdown in this situation.

[Roadstar]

Thanks for the comments. This hand, at the time, made me feel I was playing poorly as I wasn't sure pooshing was so hot. Reasoning it out in this thread may me feel maybe it wasn't so bad - perhaps I can just blame it on running bad [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, I pushed, SB insta called, MP folded.

SB shows 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the flopped nut straight MHING.