Overcards KQ

Silverback · #1 11-30-2006, 04:10 PM

No reads on villian.

Comments please.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

ParvelX · #2 11-30-2006, 04:21 PM

He raises preflop in early position. Assuming he is not a maniac that should indicate a quite strong hand. What would you call that flop with and c/r the turn with? AJ, medium to high pp, AK, AQ, KJ? So many hands beat you here so the fold seems right. I think you are beat far many more times than you are ahead here.

jba · #3 11-30-2006, 04:29 PM

whats the question? i would bet the turn if that's what you're asking.

ParvelX · #4 11-30-2006, 04:37 PM

well with KQ I would bet too, but I would probably fold to a reraise. I suppose my question was more "retorical", to state that villain probably has a better hand quite often. Clear? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Bill Haywood · #5 11-30-2006, 04:43 PM

Grim, expensive situation if you keep betting.

There are no draws to explain his flop call, except A2, A5, AT, which are ahead of you. Since he raised utg, Ak, AQ are likely hands, which you lose to even if you hit. A pocket pair is a strong possibility, in which case you are behind. If he's bluffing, it is likely with A high, which is ahead. And who knows, he might even have the J that he represents.

What could he be raising utg that you could beat? Maybe QTs, T9s, or KTs. You might draw out against a pocket pair below J, other than 7, or Ax. But 4 bb on the turn is not a big pot to draw to when your hand is so compromised by dirty outs. If you are drawing, you want it to be for a hand that beats what he represents.

With no read, my likely plays would be either to check fold the flop, or bet the flop, give up ui. Retreat and live to fight another hand.

jba · #6 11-30-2006, 04:50 PM

bill,

"check fold the flop"? wha wha what? no way man, we could easily be good here.

the turn bet is a semibluff, lots of ace high hands are peeling the flop and will fold on the turn. I could be convinced of a turn check/fold.

bbbushu · #7 11-30-2006, 05:14 PM

bill,

so far this is your advice on every hand where the hero/ine has missed the flop. you ever consider (a) sometimes we take it down without having the best hand and (b) sometimes we have the best hand, after all?

loosen up, bro!
bbbushu

Sebastian Knight · #8 11-30-2006, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

"check fold the flop"? wha wha what? no way man, we could easily be good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we could be good. But an awful lot of villain's raising hands contain an A, a J, or a pair, while our hand is only a K-high with weak draws. (Even if villain is an idiot, he's likely to hold something like A-brick offsuit.) I've lost so much money trying to make something out of these hands (and won some surprising windfalls when the flop went check check and a K or Q hit on the turn) that I like the check fold on the flop.

Pre-flop I would certainly call, but I'm not sure 3-betting gains much. Domination lurks. What I'd like to do is pick up a flush draw on the flop.

jba · #9 11-30-2006, 05:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"check fold the flop"? wha wha what? no way man, we could easily be good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we could be good. But an awful lot of villain's raising hands contain an A, a J, or a pair, while our hand is only a K-high with weak draws. (Even if villain is an idiot, he's likely to hold something like A-brick offsuit.) I've lost so much money trying to make something out of these hands (and won some surprising windfalls when the flop went check check and a K or Q hit on the turn) that I like the check fold on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

well then maybe dont even play the hand, we dont hit the flop all that often you know.

stonescar · #10 11-30-2006, 05:26 PM

Superstandard preflop 3-bet...

I mix it up between betting this turn and check/folding.
With no reads on villain I would probably check/fold a bit more.