AA vs coordinated board

Bats · #1 11-28-2006, 10:00 PM

Should I have bet the turn? What to do when villain bets out on the river?

Villain is 13/2/.6 over 40 hands (edit added)

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
UTG bets, Hero?

Results:
Final pot: 6.25BB

Ignignokt · #2 11-28-2006, 10:10 PM

Reeeeeeead?????

As played, you got your cheap-ass showdown. Minus a reeeeeead, easy call. Villain has one lower pair and thinks he's ahead after you checked through the turn often enough.

unterfish · #3 11-28-2006, 10:40 PM

I would bet here on the turn.
Ok. The problem here is villain is tight. So he might have two pair. But I just bet for value here. If villain still calls (due to his bad AF) I might just check on the river.
But still on the turn, I bet.

unterfish · #4 11-28-2006, 10:43 PM

On this river, I would call.
Surprisingly enough, on a more scary river, I would still call because so many people (including people with AF 0.5) still make donk bets when they missed all their outs.
Just call. No raise.

BatsShadow · #5 11-28-2006, 10:57 PM

Hey, that's my name! I mean, I realize I'm like never here, but you can't be stealing the name yo.

grunch: I am not as wise as others who post more than I, but I say bet the turn and fold to a raise. Otherwise, call this river.

MrWookie · #6 11-28-2006, 11:00 PM

With our outs to the nuts, I don't like a b/f on the turn one bit. If b/c is a mistake, then betting is a mistake in the first place.

unterfish · #7 11-28-2006, 11:02 PM

Thats only the first four letters. So what??? No steal here. [censored] ridiculous.

Bats · #8 11-29-2006, 12:05 AM

For what it's worth, I got had by villain slowplaying QQ for a straight he had on the turn. In retrospect, he was probably trying for a turn check-raise, but I checked behind. However check/raise would be risky since a higher straight was possible if not likely. But with such low total aggression, who knows what he was doing.

Ignignokt · #9 11-29-2006, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
For what it's worth, I got had by villain slowplaying QQ for a straight he had on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

No, villain "had" himself by checking the turn when he couldn't be certain you'd bet. You counter-screwplayed him out of a BB.

BionicComma · #10 11-30-2006, 01:54 PM

First off, let me introduce myself since I'm new to the boards. I have been playing micro limits and small-stakes limit MTTs to increase my bankroll. I'm hoping that by contributing to the forum I can improve my skills while helping others. At the end of the day, we all want to be profitable, right?

Lets break down your hand..

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have bet the turn? What to do when villain bets out on the river?

Villain is 13/2/.6 over 40 hands (edit added)

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly fine to raise with the AA. Seems like a tight game for a micro table with only 3 going to the flop.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok to bet here. Your AA has 4 outs to the Q for the nut straight. Since he checked and called you are likely to be against a pair or a straight draw. If he has a Q, your two outs to improve to a set by hitting a turn A are worthless. A flush is not an issue here. At this point I am hoping my AA holds.

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your read on the player at this point? If he is aggressive and has the Q I would expect him to bet, since the 9 completes the bottom straight. Since he doesn't bet I leave him either on a pair or perhaps a draw with Ax (he might have something like AT or AJ).

Since the pot is so small I believe it is ok to check here. If he actually made a draw you are just adding value for him and realistically you are only drawing to tie. If he has a pair or two pair he is probably looking to check and call to the showdown. In most of these a bet here is -EV because situations where he would call he would probably have you beat. If you get raised you are ruined.

[ QUOTE ]

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players)
UTG bets, Hero?

Results:
Final pot: 6.25BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, at this point there is 6.25BB in the pot. To call for 2BB you need to have better than 8.25BB/2BB = 4.13 to 1 odds. You read on the player here is very important; if he has limped lots of hands with connected or suited cards looking to draw out to straights and flushes (a common tactic in micro limit) *and* is capable of a maneuver like a check-raise on the turn (else why would he check his made straight to you on the turn?) then I might think twice. Ultimately, you only need to win about 25% of the time to make this call and I think the AA holds up against many of his his possible holdings. I put him on an ace that pairs with the board and a busted straight draw. I would call. You should be hoping he doesn't have something like KJ or K3. Regardless this seems to be positive EV to me based on the given info, so I would call.

The thing to remember about AA is how weak it can become in micro limit games. Working against you is that:

1. In micro limit people will call PFRs with anything. Any scary board should cause you to slow down. If you think you have the edge enter a check-and call mode and go for the showdown.
2. Plays that protect your hand are less effective because people are very loose.
3. You do not want your AA to get reraised, ever. This is for the reasons I stated above. A reraise after the flop is probably going to turn into a value bet for someone (maybe not the raiser, but someone that isn't you) in a loose game. You want your AA to last to the river and you want to show down as cheaply as possible because of the risk of the suckout.

Anyway, I think you played this hand properly. If you had a better read on the player you might have considered folding but the majority of the time this would be the proper play.

Open to all feedback. Good luck!