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#1
11-27-2006, 11:45 PM
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88 - River check fold?
UTG - 30/5/3 over about 60
UTG+1 - 85/10/<1 I was planning on C/Ring the flop, I figured that UTG betting out shouldn't change that plan. Is this river and easy check fold? Poker Stars Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $3/$6 6 players Converter Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls. Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.33SB, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.17BB, 3 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.17BB, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets 
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#4
11-28-2006, 03:10 AM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
I usually 3-bet to isolate pf. As played, c/r is fine and I also c/c to induce river bluff.
Edit: Now that I look at it more closely and realize that UTG donked I would just call and bet safe turns, in this case I c/c flop and check turn.
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#6
11-28-2006, 12:38 PM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] Double paired board against 2 opponents? Can we find a fold in this big pot if we're raised? Even monkeys hit their hands once in a while. HU I like leading this river but I'm not sure about it 3 way. Checking may induce a bluff and I'm willing to pay one bet on this river getting big odds. We know the calling station is coming along.
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#7
11-28-2006, 01:17 PM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
RIVER: You should be able to fold that river almost every time. The pot is big enough (partly because you made it that way) that I might find a call though. UTG probably has a 7 or a 9, UTG1 has a higher pocket pair or a Queen or he won't be calling anyway.
FLOP: I don't like c/r'g. When UTG1 calls, he has two higher cards or a pocket pair. If the second he's not folding and your going to lose and you're not going to know it until the showdown or the river if he pops you there. If the first, he's probably not folding and you've given him plently odds to call. When the turn comes, he now also has correct odds to call with two big cards also because of the size you've made the pot. Just betting out would be more effective to get folds and would cost you less with better effect, and I think that's what your concentration should be on--not on building a bigger pot with a hand that is extreemley vulnerable if not already behind. Alternately, it's even better if someone calls with two overcards as long as you haven't given them proper odds to do so. You're also overrepresenting your hand by making it look like you have might have a nine, so you might have stiffled getting information that could have saved you money. For instance, if you just bet out the flop and turn and someone popped the turn, you could safely fold.
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#8
11-28-2006, 02:55 PM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] You are never folding a better hand and I don't think you get calls from worse hands too often, certainly not enough to offset the 1BB expended by a river bet given that Hero is well behind the collective range of the two villains here. You basically need UTG to have a broken draw like 68 or T8 (which he will fold) or a medium pair like 66 or 88 (which he will also fold) AND UTG+1 to have exactly AK or AJ AND be willing to call one last bet (although I will grant you that he will probably do so if UTG folds). Plus, while it seems as if UTG+1 must have just overcards, the fact that he is a loose passive increases the odds that he may actually have top pair or an overpair but was just too scared to put in a post-flop raise due to the paired board on the flop.
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#9
11-28-2006, 05:40 PM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
[ QUOTE ]
UTG - 30/5/3 over about 60 UTG+1 - 85/10/<1 I was planning on C/Ring the flop, I figured that UTG betting out shouldn't change that plan. Is this river and easy check fold? Poker Stars Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $3/$6 6 players Converter Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG calls. Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.33SB, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.17BB, 3 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (9.17BB, 3 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets [/ QUOTE ] I'd definitely fold if UTG+1 calls. If he folds I think it's OK to call this river getting 10:1 because UTG's post flop aggression factor. He'll have a missed draw or A high sometimes.
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#10
11-28-2006, 07:19 PM
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Re: 88 - River check fold?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'd bet the river. [/ QUOTE ] Double paired board against 2 opponents? Can we find a fold in this big pot if we're raised? Even monkeys hit their hands once in a while. HU I like leading this river but I'm not sure about it 3 way. Checking may induce a bluff and I'm willing to pay one bet on this river getting big odds. We know the calling station is coming along. [/ QUOTE ] I doubt that anything except a better hand bets this river if Hero checks. It's a superstandard instamuck if raised.
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