Is this play ethical ?

punter11235 · #1 11-26-2006, 10:08 AM

10$/20$ 10 handed table.
I have A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (my stack $3k)

I limp UTG for 20, shorty makes it 90 (shorty is $450).
Everybody folds and another player with 3k called from BB.

Now I came up with following play : Minraise hoping for shorty to push and then come over the top if BB calls.

BB is practically forced to fold after shorty push as its pretty clear why I minraise. He in fact did and I was happy with my play but then some doubts appeared if its ethical.
Thoughts ?

wazz · #2 11-26-2006, 10:53 AM

Ethical? Really?

Let me tell you about a live hand from friday night (PLHE). I call a raise with KQ. The flop comes QT6 and I get it all-in HU for a pot of £190. Turn 6, river A, for the board to read QT66A. I show my KQ, he shows his own Q then mucks his cards and signals for the pot to be shipped. No-one else noticed (or at least said someone).

My board reading skills > his board reading skills. It's not ethics. I shut up because I'm gonna get his money eventually. This just quickens up the process and gets rid of some of the interim variance. If you made a play that shipped you their equity and hence their monies, why would you give a f*ck when they say the play isn't 'ethical'? WTF does ethical mean when it comes to poker anyway?

CaptDEEbo · #3 11-26-2006, 11:02 AM

as long as youre not cheating or colluding there are no ethics in poker..you can play your hand however the hell you please..

CaptDEEbo · #4 11-26-2006, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ethical? Really?

Let me tell you about a live hand from friday night (PLHE). I call a raise with KQ. The flop comes QT6 and I get it all-in HU for a pot of £190. Turn 6, river A, for the board to read QT66A. I show my KQ, he shows his own Q then mucks his cards and signals for the pot to be shipped. No-one else noticed (or at least said someone).

My board reading skills > his board reading skills. It's not ethics. I shut up because I'm gonna get his money eventually. This just quickens up the process and gets rid of some of the interim variance. If you made a play that shipped you their equity and hence their monies, why would you give a f*ck when they say the play isn't 'ethical'? WTF does ethical mean when it comes to poker anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

wait a second...i dont quite understand the first part of the story...you sat idily by while the dealer shipped the guy the pot...i would have been like "whats your other one buddy?" or something to that extent...how do u let him do that??

wazz · #5 11-26-2006, 11:22 AM

I don't think you get it deebo..... he signalled for the pot to be shipped to me (I didn't make that clear).

And did you not notice the part where the kicker on a pair of queens doesn't play because of the lower pair on the board and the ace? He mucked his cards which were entitled to half the pot and gave me the whole pot.

CaptDEEbo · #6 11-26-2006, 11:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you get it deebo..... he signalled for the pot to be shipped to me (I didn't make that clear).

And did you not notice the part where the kicker on a pair of queens doesn't play because of the lower pair on the board and the ace? He mucked his cards which were entitled to half the pot and gave me the whole pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

oooohhh i see...no i didnt really pay attention to the split board with any Q...yea if hes dumb enough to muck his cards so be it...i dont even consider that unethical..even though its more borderline that OP's scenario by about a million miles...

Red Lion · #7 11-26-2006, 12:15 PM

Yes, and if he only showed a Q, he did not show his hand. Standard rules of showing both cards to win the pot.

wazz · #8 11-26-2006, 12:43 PM

I'm really having trouble working out how on earth there is anything remotely unethical about OP's play. Short of active collusion I'm not sure there is any sort of betting that you could employ that is unethical. Unless of course you count taking an idiots money as unethical.

punter11235 · #9 11-26-2006, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really having trouble working out how on earth there is anything remotely unethical about OP's play.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like we are colluding vs Villain and sucking him in.

wazz · #10 11-26-2006, 12:50 PM

Which villain? Shorty or BB? Unethical doesn't count for anything unless you're actually colluding. As it is you're actually telling BB 'I am re-opening the betting because I want another chance to raise, call if you really want but you're getting another barrel'. It's up to him what he does. Ethics doesn't come into play here, you pulled an isolation move and made it work.