SSHE is king but does anyone use guidelines from HPFAP more?

[Jiggymike]

Since I rarely (not for a long time) play full ring games online now, I was wondering what guidelines people use now. I know in live games the strategies from SSHE still apply because you can get in games with 6-10 to each flop. However, online there are considerably less but there are still always loose players to find. Are they so loose that people use SSHE strategy where we assume most players are just terrible or do you give other players more credit and play against them as if you were using the "loose games" section from HPFAP? They are largely similar but HPFAP gives advice such as keeping pots small in certain cases and foregoing edges which you would not forego if players were awful. Anyhow I'm just being curious.

[HoneyBadger]

I don't 'use' SSHE much anymore. It was a good read to get started, but I don't like it that much anymore.

For preflop I use a combination of HPFAP and Yao's weighing the odds.

To draw and count outs I think mason's and slotbooms's "Hold'em on the come" is king (not yao hehe).

For general plays I also think HPFAP is good, along with TOP of course.

And to put it all in practice I absolutely loved Jacob's and Brier's "how good is your limit hold'em". That book is gold. I wish there were more of this type. Hand quizzes that take opponent stats into account. Then I also liked "middle limit hold'em", but I think it's confusing that some advice is somewhat weakish. I'll have to reread that one.

If you'd ask me what the central message of SSHE was... I'd pobably say "bet for value and raise to protect your hand".

[mjkidd]

The advice in SSHE and HPFAP is consistent. You don't have to "choose" which to apply; you change your strategy depending on game conditions. A lot of games I play online are not the "typical" game conditions in either HPFAP or SSHE. For example, most games I play in are fairly tight preflop, but after the flop a lot of players play quite badly, conditions that aren't really addressed in either text. Even though the game is "tight" preflop (and thus superficially resembles a HPFAP game), you'd be foolish to use most of the "fancy" postflop plays described in HPFAP. The key is understanding the concepts in both texts and applying these concepts to varying game conditions.

[.KeviN.]

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If you'd ask me what the central message of SSHE was... I'd pobably say "bet for value and raise to protect your hand".

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Exactly. SSHE is a great book for horrible games. HEPFAP is definately the way to go as far as online 1/2 or above. If you really get the ideas in the book then you should be able to adjust to any sort of game. I haven't read How Good is Your Limit though and id like to see what anyone who's read both has to say about the books.

[Jiggymike]

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I don't 'use' SSHE much anymore. It was a good read to get started, but I don't like it that much anymore.

For preflop I use a combination of HPFAP and Yao's weighing the odds.

To draw and count outs I think mason's and slotbooms's "Hold'em on the come" is king (not yao hehe).

For general plays I also think HPFAP is good, along with TOP of course.

And to put it all in practice I absolutely loved Jacob's and Brier's "how good is your limit hold'em". That book is gold. I wish there were more of this type. Hand quizzes that take opponent stats into account. Then I also liked "middle limit hold'em", but I think it's confusing that some advice is somewhat weakish. I'll have to reread that one.

If you'd ask me what the central message of SSHE was... I'd pobably say "bet for value and raise to protect your hand".

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Badger
All I own for LHE are TOP, HPFAP, SSHE, and Low limit hold em - what other ones should I put on my holiday list (even though I am playing less online limit hold em these days). Thanks

[James.]

let me recommend Mason's "Poker Essay" series(3 of them). some advice/reasoning is weakish, but he does a great job at exploring/explaining concepts, sample hands, etc. IMO must read material.

that said, eventually you guys need to digest this information and start to think on your own about your situation and how to maximize your ev. IOW, think and play your style, your way.

[HoneyBadger]

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Badger
All I own for LHE are TOP, HPFAP, SSHE, and Low limit hold em - what other ones should I put on my holiday list (even though I am playing less online limit hold em these days). Thanks

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Are you good at counting outs, partial outs and implied odds; possibly also in live games? I like "hold'em on the come". If you already know not every straight draw is equal, bottom pair is not 5 outs, not every flush draw is 9, and pot odds of 9:1 might just be enough for you gutshot... then don't buy it.

If you want to evaluate your online play: "how good is your limit hold'em". Tiny book, 24 hand quizes. It starts by saying who the players in the hand are (ie. a LAG, a solid TAG and an unknown) after which it will ask questions and assign scores. It also explores different outcomes on the board, say first an ace hits then what, now the 4th spade hits now what, suppose not the LAG but the TAG raised preflop, then what? I like this book because unlike the others it's not just theory it shows some actual online hands and the various ways they can be played. On their 0-100 scale I scored ~85 on average per hand. Some I scored 65 or so and learned something, others I scored 95-100 and reinforced the feeling I'm comfortable in these situations. There is no direct advice in this book though; they will say c/c the river is better than b/f, but not why. They assume you know.

[Bob T.]

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that said, eventually you guys need to digest this information and start to think on your own about your situation and how to maximize your ev. IOW, think and play your style, your way.

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ding!

I use Bob T's variable hands starting chart [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. I did sort the hands in my database by profit, and I was surprised at how close they followed the hand rankings in HPFAP.

I would say, that in two situations, you want to vary your opening requirements a lot. If you have either very tight, or very loose players in the blinds, you need to make an adjustment for that, and probably open up your requirements, and also change the mix of hands that you play.

[jedi]

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If you'd ask me what the central message of SSHE was... I'd pobably say "bet for value and raise to protect your hand".

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Exactly. SSHE is a great book for horrible games. HEPFAP is definately the way to go as far as online 1/2 or above.

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Don't forget live games. Last time I was in Vegas, I was astounded at how bad the players at low limit games are. Chasing with anything, even with no overcards on the flop. One guy didn't even realize he lost after he saw all the cards out.

[Bob T.]

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Don't forget live games.

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Really live games play like the games that SSHE was written for.