Shortstacking

Bavid Denyamine · #1 11-24-2006, 01:37 PM

Saw this chat in the 25/50 Stars NL between Barry Greenstein and H@LL. I missed the first two lines, but H@LL asked why Barry was shortstacking, and Barry said big stacks can't play some hands as aggressively. To which H@LL replies..

H@££INGGOL said, "but they can play vs other bigstacks ways shortstacks cant"

barryg1 said, "still a disadvantage, unless other big stack is a weak player"

My question isn't really whether you think Barry is right or not (feel free to give your opinion on the matter if you want, though), but if he is right does that still make it a profitable decision?

Can shortstacking be more profitable than a full buy?

Unknown Soldier · #2 11-24-2006, 01:42 PM

well theres pros and cons. It's alot easier to play a short stack correctly because there are hardly any post flop decisions. It's usually all in pf or all in on the flop (a bit like the latter stages of a tournament). However a short stack cannot get the same value from big hands that a big stack can. It's also harder to bluff with a shortstack. It really limits your play.

Dagger78 · #3 11-25-2006, 04:38 AM

If you feel you are on generally equal footing with your opponents(or they are simply better than you) than playing a short stack will probably be more profitable than playing with a big stack, by simply harnessing the power of playing short. Therefore buying in short may be more profitable at times than buying in big. I doubt this would be the general rule though.

1968 · #4 11-25-2006, 05:10 AM

I can't see how short stacking can be more profitable.. There is too much of a luck factor in pushing pre/post flop.. Also as stated above- when you do get a hand- its not going to have optimal value.

Margin Of Error · #5 11-25-2006, 03:34 PM

Playing shortstacked you can get big stacks to make -EV calls simply because they have implied odds. Shortstacked is an advantage because it makes it easier for big stacks to make mistakes against you, especially PF.

Unknown Soldier · #6 11-25-2006, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Playing shortstacked you can get big stacks to make -EV calls simply because they have implied odds. Shortstacked is an advantage because it makes it easier for big stacks to make mistakes against you, especially PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

they wont have good implied odds at all

Bantam222 · #7 11-25-2006, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel you are on generally equal footing with your opponents(or they are simply better than you) than playing a short stack will probably be more profitable than playing with a big stack,

[/ QUOTE ]

This game will not be profitable if the players are better then you. One could argue that playing shortstacked gets rid of a lot of the edge the more skilled players have because it becomes more of a push/fold game, but you will still lose in the long run.

Unknown Soldier · #8 11-25-2006, 05:20 PM

not if you've mastered push/fold, but just cant play post flop

Dagger78 · #9 11-25-2006, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you feel you are on generally equal footing with your opponents(or they are simply better than you) than playing a short stack will probably be more profitable than playing with a big stack,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This game will not be profitable if the players are better then you. One could argue that playing shortstacked gets rid of a lot of the edge the more skilled players have because it becomes more of a push/fold game, but you will still lose in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe this to be necessarily true. I fairly simple preflop and flop strategy when playing short can cause you to get your money in better if the other stacks are playing fairly deep. The deep stacks will be making more plays and calls based on the the other big stacks, even though they are aware these calls or plays may be incorrect against you. There is a good example of this in "No limit Hold'em: Thoery and Practice". If you believe your only disadvantage is on the big turn and river streets, than playing short may be more profitable.

I believe I may have misworded my initial response.

51cards · #10 11-25-2006, 09:05 PM

Ok, I kind of a newb still, but this is what I think.

When someone buys short they are effectively making everyone short wrt themselves. So anyone buying short is not saying "short > big" but rather "[my short] - [your short] > [my big] - [your big]"

[My big] may be greater than [your big] or maybe [my big] is greater but not by as much as [my short] is greater than [your short].

I don't know if that makes sense or is even clear enough to understand. Please comment if you do understand.