$20 180 Man: Big Draw at FT

JSH06 · #1 11-22-2006, 03:14 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1600 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t35856)
UTG (t22263)
UTG+1 (t15683)
MTT Donkey (t46671)
MP2 (t46291)
CO (t22197)
Button (t43070)
SB (t37969)

Preflop: MTT Donkey is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MTT Donkey raises to t4800, 2 folds, Button calls t4800, 1 fold, BB calls t3200.

Flop: (t13325) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t6400, MTT Donkey calls t6400, Button folds.

Turn: (t26125) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, MTT Donkey?

On one end we can check behind, hope to hit our big draw, and still have 35,471 chips if we lose.

On the other hand, my opponent's line smells of weakness and the chips in the pot would look really good in my stack. My opponent cold called a raise preflop, bet less than 1/2 the pot on an ace flop that is kind of draw heavy, and then checked the turn. What sucks is that the pot alreasy has 26,125 chips in it and I only have 35,471 behind, while my opponent has 24,656 behind. If I win the pot I'll have a good chip lead with 61,623 chips, but I'll probably have to risk almost my entire stack to do so. If I get called I wouldn't be much more than a 2-1 dog, but it looks like I have a lot of fold equity. Take the safe route and check behind or take the risk and try to bet him out?

Craiger · #2 11-22-2006, 03:53 PM

I say check, why risk your tourney with nothing? If the river draws a blank, then you can safely fold without too much damage to your stack

HerbieGRD · #3 11-22-2006, 04:06 PM

I think you have enough FE that a push here is good but some kind of general read on BB would help

shaundeeb · #4 11-22-2006, 04:09 PM

you need to shove that flop.

JSH06 · #5 11-22-2006, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you need to shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shoving the flop is bad. We only have an OESD & the button is still to act behind us. Bluffing 2 players with an OESD on that board does not sound like a good idea. Did you mean the turn?

Mi_T_Sharp · #6 11-22-2006, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you need to shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shoving the flop is bad. We only have an OESD & the button is still to act behind us. Bluffing 2 players with an OESD on that board does not sound like a good idea. Did you mean the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think shoving that flop is bad, then you shouldn't be raising with J10s. Otherwise you are bleeding chips. What kind of flop were you looking for? Don't forget to take into account that you raised PF, so your opponents may automatically assume you have AK or something.

Edit: FE is your friend. Of course you don't have a hand yet, but factor in the percentage of times your opponents will fold with your draw, and you have created quite a profitable situation for yourself here if you reraise allin on the flop.

Also, if you check behind and your flush or straight hits, do you think they will pay off a huge river bet?

JSH06 · #7 11-22-2006, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you need to shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shoving the flop is bad. We only have an OESD & the button is still to act behind us. Bluffing 2 players with an OESD on that board does not sound like a good idea. Did you mean the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think shoving that flop is bad, then you shouldn't be raising with J10s. Otherwise you are bleeding chips. What kind of flop were you looking for? Don't forget to take into account that you raised PF, so your opponents may automatically assume you have AK or something.

Edit: FE is your friend. Of course you don't have a hand yet, but factor in the percentage of times your opponents will fold with your draw, and you have created quite a profitable situation for yourself here if you reraise allin on the flop.

Also, if you check behind and your flush or straight hits, do you think they will pay off a huge river bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Sounds good. I don't play many MTTs, which is why I'm only mixing in a $20 180 man donkament here and there for now. I'll take your word for it. Thanks.

shaundeeb · #8 11-22-2006, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you need to shove that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shoving the flop is bad. We only have an OESD & the button is still to act behind us. Bluffing 2 players with an OESD on that board does not sound like a good idea. Did you mean the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been at more 180 fts than anyone that I know off and not shoving that flop is a crime. Due to the other players being in it increases the FE because hell who would semi-bluff that board. That is what a donk thinks, also there is soo much bet/folding going on into a PFR on Ace high boards it's rediculous. Even if he calls you with his A7 you have 9.5-10 outs twice. And a nice chunk of dead money due to the 3 way action going to the flop. There is 20k in the pot when it gets to you on the flop you have 40k behind that's a great spot to shove a lot of hands weaker than an OESD, If he folds you have increased your stack by 40% without even seeing a turn, that is awesome and power poker at it's best. Also, by shoving button really can't call your shove even with AK is he's half way decent your hand looks too strong and I only expect a call of a shove from but with A9+. He should be and prob will fold all draws except maybe KsJs, Ks10s Js10s. Those are only draws that prob call if you shove from button. Hand range for BB is 80% 1 pair hands 15% FDs 5% 2pair+. That is good assumption of what he is leading with.

Also, the mistake of calling is button can shove now as a squeeze and even if BB calls the shove you prob should be calling if you put neither on a FD because you are getting the right odds. So Instead of being the one calling bets/shoves be the one shoving. The EV is immensely greater.