overplaying my hand???

Remedy · #1 11-22-2006, 09:42 AM

a 20/40 game at Bay 101 in San Jose...new player to the table, raises from under the gun, one person calls from middle position, i call as well with AsJs from the button, the blinds drop out, the flop comes Q 9 3 rainbow, the raiser bets immediately while staring at the flop, the player in middle pos. drops out and i call, the turn comes another queen the raiser bets again immediately, i raise, he slows down and flat calls, the river comes a duece, he checks i bet, he raises, i study him, and reraise, he sits there agonizes and then finally calls, he flips over AKo...what im wondering is did i misplay my hand even after putting him on being weak??? or how could i have played differently?

stinkypete · #2 11-22-2006, 10:51 AM

spewage. a pure bluff against an unknown on a non-scary board is just dumb. were you trying to represent a queen? wouldn't you raise the flop with a queen? it's pretty obvious that you either have a monster (flopped set) or nothing, so you're likely going to get called down.

just fold the flop.

stinkypete · #3 11-22-2006, 10:52 AM

and why would you read an unknown under the gun raiser as weak?

Remedy · #4 11-22-2006, 11:10 AM

thanks for the advice, i figured that much, i also figured betting the flop probably would have been a lot more effective, as far as the reading him as weak, i meant postflop,i saw him exhibiting what i percieved to be a common tell for weakness...thanks though yeah the fold probably was the more correct of the three routes lol...

andyfox · #5 11-22-2006, 01:27 PM

I think he meant on the flop when the guy bet quickly while staring at the flop, a classic tell that the flop missed him.

benwood · #6 11-22-2006, 01:33 PM

Since your hand is a little weaker,high-card wise,than a typical utg pre-flop raise,you don't have enough equity when no(I assume)spades flop & you don't make a pair.

Digs · #7 11-24-2006, 02:06 PM

germanely I wouldnt make that play

but holy [censored] what a call on the river 3bet

seriously that's like the sickest donkey call ever

GreywolfNYC · #8 11-24-2006, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
spewage. a pure bluff against an unknown on a non-scary board is just dumb. were you trying to represent a queen? wouldn't you raise the flop with a queen? it's pretty obvious that you either have a monster (flopped set) or nothing, so you're likely going to get called down.

just fold the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this says it all.

danzasmack · #9 11-24-2006, 03:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
germanely I wouldnt make that play

but holy [censored] what a call on the river 3bet

seriously that's like the sickest donkey call ever

[/ QUOTE ]

This point is one i could discuss for hours:

GIVEN: you know your opponent has a weak hand (ace hi, king hi)

A) is his call good, in terms of should he make that call against you normally?

B) after considering you answer in A, how bad is your raise?

I had a hand HU where i went 4 bets on the turn knowing the guy had at best a draw. I also had a draw. he called the river with Q hi and won.

While my play made sense it was completely off. Against a player that calls too much trying to push him off a hand is the biggest mistake I can make.

knowing your opponents play is incorrect is only profitable if you know how to take advantage of that.

Parkiet · #10 11-25-2006, 12:12 PM

Ok, I think this one is interesting.
Staring at the flop doesn't mean he is weak, it means he has missed! So if he raises UTG misses this flop and then bets out, what can he have? It must be AK or maybe AJ.

If you want to put him of his hand, why not raise the flop and bet the turn? If he then stil calls, he is likely to call the river too.

You could also just fold this flop and see what you can do with this read later in the game.

The river play of both of you is astonishing. I hardly dare to comment about it. It's a gutsy try, but you surely shouldn't have 'studied' him, but decide immediately. The longer you think/hesitate, the less likely it is a bluff will succeed.