A couple tough hands at 1/2

[Rotterdaum]

First hand almost no hands on villain but he seems loose.
2nd hand villain is 34/22 over 150 hands.
Not much more I can say now. My image is tight and very aggressive.

Please post thoughts, tell me if you like or dislike my play, how you would play it and what you would do on the rivers.

I will be back in 5-10 hours to comment. Thanks in advance

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero ($199)</font>
UTG ($180)
MP ($567.20)
CO ($222.90)
Button ($205)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($242)</font>

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $19</font>, SB calls $13.

Flop: ($38) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, SB calls $30.

Turn: ($98) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $48</font>, Hero calls $48.

River: ($194) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $145 (All-In)</font>







PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($197)
SB ($186.80)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($346.85)</font>
UTG ($275.95)
<font color="#C00000">MP ($182.15)</font>

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $2, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, MP calls $8, Button folds.

Flop: ($23) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $19</font>, MP calls $19.

Turn: ($61) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $33</font>, MP calls $33.

River: ($127) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $120.15 (All-In)</font>

[jk3a]

1: no reads, fold turn, if not fold river

2: fold

Both these hands you obviously called, and whether you won or not really doesn't matter. You only beat bluffs in both hands, and you've given no history or reasons to make us believe that these are bluffs. Why did you call these?

[BGnight]

Hand 1: I might make a crying call. Don't mind a fold. Really no idea what this guy is up to. Probably 60/40 fold/call.

Hand 2: If he had a set he's most certainly raising turn. Again he could just be repping flush on a missed straight draw or something. 70/30 call/fold.

Basically flip a coin on both hands and close my eyes if I hit call button. Not real insightful, but the best I could come up w/.

[bhudson]

Hand 2 is an easier fold. 56 got there, so did flush, and the board is paired.

[wpr101]

Hand 1 I play the same. Hand 2 I fold

[Rotterdaum]

Obviously it's not exactly standard to play these hands this way and call on river, but I just wanted to see if you guys can make cases for calling in each, or whether you thought I misplayed them before river.

First off, both opponents were loose and I had no reason to think they were particularly good.

In hand one, I think either 1) he flopped a monster and hopes I hit the king or 2) is representing the king and is semi bluffing 3) is representing the king and has a weak hand that he just doesn't want to give up on (i.e. pure bluffing)

other than this, it just doesn't seem awfully likely that he has a hand with a king in it, unless it's a flopped flush draw. Even then, he's not afraid of the draw coming and should think he has the best hand, so he shouldn't scare action off, but should want to induce it by checking.

so by scenarios:

1) if he had flopped a monster, it's not that likely that the king helped me. 80% of the time it doesn't. wouldn't he want me to represent the king (which makes more sense than him representing it) instead of just making me fold with his bet?

2) doesn't look like any semi bluff got there, so I should be good

3) my hand is good.

So that's my reasoning, I called and I was good. Obviously i'm not always good there, but I thought that logically I should be, most of the time.

The AA hand.

On turn I bet small to set up pot size for the river to make it easier to get it all in against some hands like small overpairs. (it's tougher for them to get away this way, than if I bet big on turn and make them decide for stacks there) However, the river made me think betting was -EV, so I checked.

If you think a random 56 is a part of the guy's range, I doubt most players will value bet a straight on this river like this.

2) I have the ace of diamonds, which makes a flush draw pretty unlikely.

Other than this, I just thought very few hands that are ahead of me except made full houses make this bet on the river, without giving me more action earlier. So a naked 7 almost definitely raises turn, and doesn't go all in on river. A flush draw is very unlikely, unless it's a straight flush draw. A straight almost never pushes river. A flopped set almost always raises flop. SO I called, and I was good once again.

Obviously these were not insta called by me or anything, but I thought they were interesting and they certainly were tough. I came up with good reasons for my actions so I did what I had to do.
Hope my explanation makes sense

Thoughts?

[Nielsio]

I think turnbet in hand two is absolutely awful. If you make it 3/4s the river becomes much much easier, whereas right now you're letting draws get there cheap *and you're paying off*********.

[Rotterdaum]

Ok let's see, he's getting a little worse than 2:1 on turn. Let's say he has a flush draw ... he has 8 outs, he needs to be getting almost 6:1. That means to correctly draw, he needs to on average make ~$120 on the river every time he hits. What about overflushes? It's a paired board too. His odds are nowhere near lucrative.

Also, sure I'm paying off on this river, but that doesn't mean I am on others.

[Nielsio]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok let's see, he's getting a little worse than 2:1 on turn. Let's say he has a flush draw ... he has 8 outs, he needs to be getting almost 6:1. That means to correctly draw, he needs to on average make ~$120 on the river every time he hits. What about overflushes? It's a paired board too. His odds are nowhere near lucrative.

Also, sure I'm paying off on this river, but that doesn't mean I am on others.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has to call $33 to win $94 + an extra $87 when you pay off. Which means he needs 18,2% to breakeven.

Suppose he has *just* a flushdraw:

=========
Board: 4h 9d 7d 7h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 81.8182 % 81.82% 00.00% { AcAd }
Hand 2: 18.1818 % 18.18% 00.00% { 3d2d }
=========


Which means you're giving him odds to draw.

Whereas if you bet 3/4 (or bigger), you're making money if he has a naked flush draw AND some people give up on the turn with a flushdraw if they're getting incorrect odds, meaning you win the pot uncontested 100% (even though your equity is lower than that).

[Tupacia]

Hand 1 is close and read-dependent - don't hate a fold or a call there.

Hand 2 is such an instacall for me it is not even close. We have the Ace of Diamonds people - I think folding here is a leak. This is a lower overpair than us a bunch of the time, and it's a perfect board to bluff at on the river.