Another: U Make The Call - Part Deux

Pscam10 · #1 11-16-2006, 06:37 PM

I didn't want to hijack KC50's previous post, but the discussion got me thinking about an interesting ruling that happened to me a few month's back.

I don't remember all the specifics, but after a few raises and re-raises I get it all in post flop (all unders) against one villain. I was the last aggressor. After going in to the tank for like 3 minutes, Villain turns over AA and tosses them toward the muck; I clearly heard him say "call". The dealer, who was obviously very inexperienced and didn't speak English well drags villains aces in to the muck - they were clearly not retrievable. The villain and his neighbors instantly start screaming that he called my all-in. The dealer proceeds to pick all the cards up and fish through them for villains cards. Now I go crazy and call for the floor. I still have not tabled my hand.

The floor rules that the villains hand is still live - which I didn't necessarily agree with but let it go because I thought it was the fair thing to do. The floor then tells the dealer to reshuffle all the cards and deal the turn and river because the remaining cards were placed on top of the muck. Villain objects to no avail. Turn is a blank and I spike my king on the river to make a set and win the pot.

Villain proceeds to ask me to chop the pot. I pretty much laughed and began stacking my chips. The guy went nuts and stormed off.

Do you think the floor made the right ruling(s)? I honestly believed that the villains cards were dead as soon as the dealer washed his cards with the muck rendering them unretrievable. Would I have been awarded the whole pot if this was the ruling?

sirpupnyc · #2 11-16-2006, 06:45 PM

If he said call, he called. If he tabled his hand, his cards were seen by many and identifiable, so the magical muck has no power over them.

RR · #3 11-16-2006, 06:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain turns over AA and tosses them toward the muck; I clearly heard him say "call". The dealer, who was obviously very inexperienced and didn't speak English well drags villains aces in to the muck - they were clearly not retrievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can identify them, one was an ace and the other one was an ace. Assuming a couple people saw the suits now we can just go through the muck until we find them.

Pscam10 · #4 11-16-2006, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he said call, he called. If he tabled his hand, his cards were seen by many and identifiable, so the magical muck has no power over them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, that is why I didn't strenuously object to his hand being live, but don't you think it's a little much for the dealer to pick up all the cards and fish through them for 2 aces? Doesn't the player have some responsibility for protecting his hand?

Pscam10 · #5 11-16-2006, 06:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain turns over AA and tosses them toward the muck; I clearly heard him say "call". The dealer, who was obviously very inexperienced and didn't speak English well drags villains aces in to the muck - they were clearly not retrievable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can identify them, one was an ace and the other one was an ace. Assuming a couple people saw the suits now we can just go through the muck until we find them.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK

donking · #6 11-16-2006, 06:58 PM

Sounds like the floor did the correct thing.

andyfox · #7 11-16-2006, 07:05 PM

Sure seems to me that no-limit players have flamboyance disease. Just put your chips in or call out your action loud and clear and then protect your cards until the pot is awarded. Don't stand up to see the other guy's hand, don't toss your cards towards the muck when you're calling.

ZPinhead · #8 11-16-2006, 07:06 PM

Sounds to me like:

1) The floor made the correct ruling
2) The dealer should be kicked in the nuts several times
3) The villain should get a kidney punch for being such a tool about having his AA cracked ("so, you wanna chop???")

RR · #9 11-16-2006, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sure seems to me that no-limit players have flamboyance disease. Just put your chips in or call out your action loud and clear and then protect your cards until the pot is awarded. Don't stand up to see the other guy's hand, don't toss your cards towards the muck when you're calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fairness I met up with a firend of mine in LA last week that had played very little casino poker who had no idea how to turn his cards up. He thought turn them face up and tossing them into the center where everyone could see them was a good idea.

Rottersod · #10 11-16-2006, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sure seems to me that no-limit players have flamboyance disease. Just put your chips in or call out your action loud and clear and then protect your cards until the pot is awarded. Don't stand up to see the other guy's hand, don't toss your cards towards the muck when you're calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fairness I met up with a firend of mine in LA last week that had played very little casino poker who had no idea how to turn his cards up. He thought turn them face up and tossing them into the center where everyone could see them was a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. An angle shooters' wet dream.