Measuring MTT success

[cantona]

I have mostly been playing SnG's, and a only a few MTT's online.

I have recently taken a small break and hope to be back soon, and intend to play more MTT's, and less SnG's.

I am at a slight loss as to how to measure my performance in MTT's. Obvioulsy you cant win them all, and cant cash them all.

Is there a formula, or credible rule of thumb etc as to measuring this. I can only think of measuring the ROI, but what sample do you allow before making a decision to make changes ?

Second query here, and related, is there considered to be a linear range in skill level between buyins. I seem to think its a teir, perhaps < $10 upto $50 and so forth.

I have tried searching the forum to no avail, but cant help think this may have been discussed. I'd be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction, here.


Regards

Cantona

[purp]

Point 6 from the MTT FAQ

6. What is a good ROI/ITM%/FT%?
Difficult question to answer, generally many have said that any positive ROI is a good one, 100 is solid. As for ITM, anything over 10% is good, and MTT guru Sirio has said his records haven’t shown any player above 20% with a decent sample size (this is for online tournaments with fast structures, deeper stacks and slower levels should allow a skilled player to break that cap).

Regarding sample size, i would glance at your stats after 250 just for interest, take another look after 500, after 1000 you might consider it a small sample and a very rough guide as to how you are running.
Considering a sample size of 1000 STT's is the minimum needed in that format, I suspect for MTT's it should be a whole lot bigger. 5000, 10000 etc.

[cantona]

Thanks for that, thats of help.

I moved from $1 to $5 to $10 SnG's at around the 250 games played mark, and had no trouble at this. I assume this is because of the low level of skill at this level, and therfore the 1000 game sample you mention is arbitary and more greard toward the stakes of $20 and above ?

I havent yet played anything near 250 MTT's, more like 25 but will take this advice on board. Then again I may quit as my ROI is very healthy right now ;-)

It took me a while and an expensive lesson to learn the difference in buyin levels at SnG tables, and so am hoping to avoid the same mistakes at Mtt's, so any other advice regarding buyin Vs skill level would be most appreciated.

Regards

Cantona

[linuxrocks]

How many people on this forum actually played 5000+ MTTs ? I believe a reasonable measure is whether you can make it to a FT in 20 odd tourneys or not. Of course it depends on the kind of tourneys. Any comments on that ?

[purp]

I would guess most players either improve and so move up buy-ins and field size, or discover they suck and the amount they play tails off. So I doubt few have a solid sample at any one buy-in.
I'd love to see some ITM, FT and ROI stats from anyone that has played 5000 MTT's all at similar buy-in and field size. But to use ROI as a solid guide as to your skill level at MTT's I do think you need a BIG sample.

As to No. of FT's you make, well why not? but obviously it depends how many you have to play to get those 20. Play enough and anyone will do that but it doesn't mean they are profitable.

As an example why sample size matters i've played:
300ish $4/180's never got a 1st or 2nd and my ROI is -75%. 12 FT's
and
500ish $20/180s with 4 1sts and 10 2nds and my ROI is about 45%. 30FT's
I doubt either give me a real idea of my skill level. But at least we know I suck at HU play and my FT play isn't much better [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[skylos]

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I'd love to see some ITM, FT and ROI stats from anyone that has played 5000 MTT's all at similar buy-in and field size.


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paging shaundeeb...

[HojoMofo]

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I'd love to see some ITM, FT and ROI stats from anyone that has played 5000 MTT's all at similar buy-in and field size.


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paging shaundeeb...

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this made me chuckle, because its true.

[Supwithbates]

every once in a while I'll sharkscope people at my tables at 1$/45s, and I've found several people with decent sample sizes breaking 100% ROI. Last week I found someone with 119% ROI over 550 games played. I'm not entirely sure how this is possible, I've had runs before but 500 games?

[mariachiinc]

Most decent tourney players will have around 15 to 20% ITM, roi's vary considerably, but anything over 30% is good, depending on the site measuring. I have about 55% roi on sharkscope playing the 180's, am fairly new to them and still learning, but shaundeeb's (the guy watch on this) is about 65-70% with a huge sample size, which is about as good as you're going to get...

[sledghammer]

I think the best way to measure success might be looking at your pokertracker stats, particularly bb/100 hand. It will diverge from $EV at certain blind levels(which will vary between tourney types), but it's a better measure than anything else imo.