10/20 LO8 live --- when good things happen to bad players (LC)

[TMTTR]

(or maybe to good players playing badly)

Game is super good. A few bad player, I have an idea about all of them... Unfortunately hero has been losing plenty when his premium hands get counterfeit on the river, etc. and then being card dead for an hour so...

Hero is SB with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Preflop:

UTG folds
Player1 (plays way too many hands and loves to bet at what he believes are orphan pots) calls
Player2 folds
Player3 (a bit laggy and unpredictable) raises.
Player4 (tighter but loving the iso-raise) 3-bets.
Player5 calls (weak passive)
CO (bad player -- loves calling multiple bets with draws/pairs/etc.) calls.
Button folds.
Hero calls (with absolutely no plans)
BB folds, Player1 calls, Player3 caps, everyone calls. It's a party!

Flop (6 players, 25SB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Player1 checks, Player3 bets, Player4 calls, Player5 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, Player1 calls, Player3 calls, Player4 3-bets, Player5 folds, CO caps, everyone calls.

Turn (5 players, 23BB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Player1 checks, Player3 checks, Player4 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, Player1 folds, Player3 calls, Player4 calls, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, everyone else calls.

River (35BB): Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero...

feel free to tell me how bad I played but also comment on how you would play the river...

[bbartlog]

I fold preflop and then failing that again on the flop (three clean outs that also make a low = tiny odds).

Since you didn't cap the betting on the turn, when there were fewer hands that could beat you, I'm not sure why you would proceed to bet the river now that K-T can beat you as well as T-8. Middle-strength hands like the third nuts in O8 shouldn't bet the river, since it encourages your opponents to play correctly. I check/call. I give you one chance in three of being ahead of all these guys, but that's plenty to call a final bet with 35BB in the pot...

[Bay]

your not good on the turn, your less good on the river.

problem in this hand, with the flop action, is your drawing dead in every direction and have virtually no good cards. Even 4 complete idiots can beat a 8 high flush and 24 low.

On the turn the only guy you actually give respect to 3 bets you. He has been betting/raising the whole way. 1$ says he has the nut str8 +q or k high clubs.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
your not good on the turn, your less good on the river.

problem in this hand, with the flop action, is your drawing dead in every direction and have virtually no good cards. Even 4 complete idiots can beat a 8 high flush and 24 low.

On the turn the only guy you actually give respect to 3 bets you. He has been betting/raising the whole way. 1$ says he has the nut str8 +q or k high clubs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You owe hero $1. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

(and where did I ever give this guy respect -- until he three bet...)

[Split Suit]

did u really call urself a good player when u cold call 3 bets pf with that hand? OOP? huh? did i misread this?

[rando]

[ QUOTE ]
feel free to tell me how bad I played but also comment on how you would play the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a fold at each fork in the road until the river, by which time you've flushed enough money down the chute, so you might as well check-call and flush one more bet away. Betting then calling a raise on the river is just self-mutilation.

When you cold-called three bets pre-flop, what hand did you aspire to win the high hand with, the unlikely 9-high nutter straight or flush? When A3 doesn't come on the flop, what then was your parachute, the 5th nut low? When the first and then second higher nut straights fell, how did you adjust your plan?

Should you by some miracle have won this pot, please do not regularly include these moves in your arsenal except when sitting at my table.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
feel free to tell me how bad I played but also comment on how you would play the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a fold at each fork in the road until the river, by which time you've flushed enough money down the chute, so you might as well check-call and flush one more bet away. Betting then calling a raise on the river is just self-mutilation.

When you cold-called three bets pre-flop, what hand did you aspire to win the high hand with, the unlikely 9-high nutter straight or flush? When A3 doesn't come on the flop, what then was your parachute, the 5th nut low? When the first and then second higher nut straights fell, how did you adjust your plan?

Should you by some miracle have won this pot, please do not regularly include these moves in your arsenal except when sitting at my table.

[/ QUOTE ]

My admissions and defense:

(1) Clearly a bad call preflop. I should have known that there were no live aces (or unlikely to be a live ace) so there was almost no way for me to make a winning low hand and I did not have any significant high potential. As should have been clear from my first post, I was a little frustrated at what had occured during the first four or five hours of this session and probably should have taken a walk and gotten some air rather than calling [but that is for the Psych forum].

(2) Not so clearly a bad call on the flop. The first two raisers on the flop had nut low draws and possible a nut flush draw. CO -- really bad player (almost as bad as me) -- could have had one of three hands: (1) most likely, a set, (2) the nut flush draw, (3) an A23 type hand. Playing for half of this bloated pot is not terrible -- even a quarter of this pot is good. But what are my chances at either of those? Probably worse than I calculated on the fly (or that I am willing to calculate right now at work).

(3) When I raised on the turn, I was pretty certain that I had the best hand and wanted to clean up the hand a little if anyone was willing to fold. When I was 3-bet, I questioned my original judgment.

(4) I agree that the river is a check-call.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
did u really call urself a good player when u cold call 3 bets pf with that hand? OOP? huh? did i misread this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I held open that I might be a good player (although this hand certainly wouldn't show it) -- I am a winning player at this game and at these limits and I certainly should not have called here. let's call it temporary insanity.

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did u really call urself a good player when u cold call 3 bets pf with that hand? OOP? huh? did i misread this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I held open that I might be a good player (although this hand certainly wouldn't show it) -- I am a winning player at this game and at these limits and I certainly should not have called here. let's call it temporary insanity.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. as long as we understand its a temporary lapse. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Bay]

i think i missed you said "tighter" instead of "tight"