100NL 2nd pair vs shortie

Kurtiii · #1 11-14-2006, 10:07 AM

Villian is a total donk who just sat and allready is berating the entire table, 85/14/0.8. I think he is drawing to a flush or straight since he probably would move in on the flop/turn if he had smth like a pair.
The river push just smells fishy, i think he would bet something like 10$ if he has a realy strong hand, or chk behind if he has me outkicked f.e. ... still fold it ?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($80.40)
MP ($9.35)
CO ($26.10)
Button ($70.50)
Hero ($96.30)
BB ($168.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls $1, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $3, BB folds, CO calls $3.

Turn: ($9) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $6, CO calls $6.

River: ($21) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $16.1 (All-In), Hero thinks ... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

testaaja · #2 11-14-2006, 10:20 AM

Well yeah he is a donk but imo he has you beat there fairly often, IF he wasn't on the draw. I'd spare my money and wait for a better hand to stack his sorry ass. Btw I wouldn't even bet the turn here because of his short stack, this will happen too often.

Novles · #3 11-14-2006, 10:23 AM

Fold preflop or somewhere else. Go ahead and call river if that's your read.

Kurtiii · #4 11-14-2006, 11:11 AM

Of course i called and he had 65o and proceeded to loose 2 stacks (not to me tho [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ).
But after the session i thought it was still a bad call because im not good very often in this spot and i might go on tilt if he doubles up with 87o here and berates me. Thanks for clearing that up [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

afterwards i found that betting the turn was correct against this particular kind of player (not with those stack sizes tho as testa pointed out), because he would ALWAYS raise allin or at least big when he got the nuts or smth he views as close to it like TPGK, either on the flop or on the turn. And almost allways calls with any kind of draw, and ofc with 85% vpip he is way more likely to be drawing or calling down 3rd pair.

Mat · #5 11-14-2006, 11:12 AM

I don't even think at betting this flop against a short 80/14.

Kurtiii · #6 11-14-2006, 11:31 AM

yea mat, in hindsight i missplayed that hand pretty badly, starting preflop. I was betting the flop because i knew he would call with any spade and any kind of gutshot, overcard draw or whatever 2 card´s he is holding and my 9 high flushdraw could well be the best draw.
Though it´s stupid to put myself in super marginal situations against a villian who´s going to go broke on any pair anyway. I know that now, that´s why i posted it :P

Also thought it would be a good spot to loosen up my image in what will likely be a small pot.

Hince · #7 11-14-2006, 11:36 AM

I would either push or check that turn. You are ahead of his range, tho marginally.

I definately call that river.

Kurtiii · #8 11-14-2006, 11:44 AM

why would you push the turn, to get called from a straight draw or 1 card flushdraw or to avoid this river decission and end the pot right there with what is likely to be the best hand ?

Hince · #9 11-14-2006, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would you push the turn, to get called from a straight draw or 1 card flushdraw or to avoid this river decission and end the pot right there with what is likely to be the best hand ?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is short, and his range is wide. I think we have the best hand, so if he is drawing, he's paying the maximum. If he has us beat, we also have the maximum amount of fold equity.

The last thing I want to do is bet the turn and give us a difficult call on most rivers. We are OOP so if we check the river, he pushes a lot of hands. If we bet the river, it has to be all in, and we give him and easy decision.

Kurtiii · #10 11-14-2006, 12:01 PM

thanks for explaining. I was just curious since you never see someone suggest overbets on this forum. I´ve done it myself a couple of times on the flop against callingstations with TPGK type hands, but was never sure if it could be a good play.
So Either i play it pasive, get to showdown cheap and let him bluff off 5-10$. Or i push hard, or just fold preflop ... seems like i managed to avoid good play pretty nicely [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]