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#1
11-12-2006, 02:38 PM
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First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
I'm a first time poster, though I've been lurking on this forum for the past few months. I play the 0.05/0.10 and .25/0.50 FL tables at Bodog and the table play is generally loose passive ... very condusive to SSHE-style play. I'm plus money so far, though my hand sample size is still small.
Anyhow, recently I've been at tables that have had multiple maniacs sitting in. Preflop betting is invariably capped (by such luminous hands as J7o and 34o), and it's often 4-bets on all the postflop streets. Still it's usually 5-6 people seeing the flop, so some (relatively) huge pots are being generated. This seems like it should be a +EV situation, though I have some questions: 1) Should be starting hand standards be tighter than usual against multiple maniacs? My flops seen % is at 25% right now (sorry, no pokertracker). Do the more marginal hands like A10o, KJo etc lose expectation in this environment? 2) How about flush/str8 draws, when it's likely to take 6 BB to get to the river card. Is this still the same profitable situation, but i'm getting confused by the inflated total bet amounts? Thanks in advance for any comments. 
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#2
11-12-2006, 02:57 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
Welcome.
You will find a good discussion of this topic ("Wild Games")in Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players p. 213. Basically you should tighten up considerably pre-flop. High PP goes up in value, speculative hands go down. I think the suggestion is to play JJ+, AK, AKs-AJs (but don't quote me on that) and dont forget that you will still have to rely on sound decisions post-flop. /d
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#4
11-12-2006, 05:09 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
Basic rule for playing in wild games is never enter a pot without a hand that already has showdown value: high pairs and highest suited connectors.
What makes their play sucessful is even if you know they play crap like J6o against your AKx, what do you do on a flop of T82 rainbow when it's 2 or more bets back to you?
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#5
11-12-2006, 05:16 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
[ QUOTE ]
Do the more marginal hands like A10o, KJo etc lose expectation in this environment? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, these hands don't have much edge if at all. If every pot is getting raised to 3 or more bets you really should only play hands that have an edge on the field, and might even fold a few of those like 99 that will be hard to play postflop (if you play a pair here it shouldn't just be for set value).
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#6
11-12-2006, 05:18 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
[ QUOTE ]
Another note on these games is prepare for your chips to swing a lot, even if you're playing extremely tight. [/ QUOTE ] FYP. The one time I played in a game like this I dropped something like 80BBs, then had a 150 or so BB upswing.
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#7
11-12-2006, 09:48 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
[ QUOTE ]
Basic rule for playing in wild games is never enter a pot without a hand that already has showdown value: high pairs and highest suited connectors. What makes their play sucessful [/ QUOTE ] is that you only see them play a hundred hands or so. Over the long run, they are losing a ton.
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#8
11-12-2006, 11:48 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
MANY people will not like this but - if you don't like it get off the table.
The problem is that once fish start to "go after" the maniac you are screwed. The trick is to get the manic heads up with you. But if you can't all of a sudden you get others in the pot and god only knows what they have. When I'm on a table it is I that wants to rule the table BUT, in a nice mild manner where people are just coming along happely. Once a maniac starts to get people pissed all of a sudden their play and betting patterns change making the game more of a "whoever gets the best cards wins" style game. THUS- I look for a new table. Pick your battles, don't let them pick you.
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#9
11-12-2006, 11:52 PM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
[ QUOTE ]
When I'm on a table it is I that wants to rule the table BUT, in a nice mild manner where people are just coming along happely. [/ QUOTE ] That's a personal decision; it's not irrational if you're playing because you like playing, but leaving a +EV game because you don't like the playing style required is obviously -EV.
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#10
11-13-2006, 11:54 AM
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Re: First Time Poster ... playing with maniacs
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] When I'm on a table it is I that wants to rule the table BUT, in a nice mild manner where people are just coming along happely. [/ QUOTE ] That's a personal decision; it's not irrational if you're playing because you like playing, but leaving a +EV game because you don't like the playing style required is obviously -EV. [/ QUOTE ] I don't have a problem with people who want to leave this type of game if their roll is at risk, but they do lose an opportunity to learn how to deal with them, which inevitably is a key to long term success. I'm with Xhad though in I'm definitely staying in that game because there is a good opportunity to get rich.
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