Blackjack: Splitting 8s against a face card is a misconception!

[pokertom]

Does anyone have any good info on why you should split 8s against a face card? 30% of the time you are up against 20, and the other times he can have 18 or 19 or draw to those.

[cgwahl]

I would think the main reason is a 16 vs a face card just plains suck the majority of the time, especially since you have to hit it.

Splitting the 8's gives you a lot of better options since 2 through 7 are easier to hit (or double if a 3), plus 9 and 10 is an ok holding as well.


However, I'm not a Blackjack expert. This is just what seems plausible to me.

[ReidDeCardes]

cqwahl is basically correct. From what I remember. 16 vs. 10 is a boarderline decision in terms on hit or stand. Basic strategy says hit. If you use the HiLo count then the index number for standing is 0. FYI, 0 is the count at the beginning of a shoe. Splitting 8s gives you a chance to win, or break even. It just sucks less!

[bpb]

It's a little thing called math.

If you don't believe it in, then just give basic strategy a pass.

[Shoe]

You still lose more than you win splitting 8's vs. a 10. However, you lose less than you would otherwise lose by hitting or staying. Therefore, even though you still lose, you lose less than you otherwise would, which saves you money over the long run.

The basic strategy for blackjack, which advocates always splitting 8's is correct and backed up by absolute mathematical fact as being the correct play over the long run. Unless you are counting and the count indicates to do otherwise, follow basic strategy no matter what you think, as that is the best move you can make it and it has been proven over and over again.

[PokerEveryDay]

[ QUOTE ]
You still lose more than you win splitting 8's vs. a 10. However, you lose less than you would otherwise lose by hitting or staying. Therefore, even though you still lose, you lose less than you otherwise would, which saves you money over the long run.

The basic strategy for blackjack, which advocates always splitting 8's is correct and backed up by absolute mathematical fact as being the correct play over the long run. Unless you are counting and the count indicates to do otherwise, follow basic strategy no matter what you think, as that is the best move you can make it and it has been proven over and over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said, and surrender if an option might even save you a couple bucks.

I would play poker instead.

[BruceZ]

It doesn't have to have positive EV to be correct, and it doesn't. Each 8 simply has to lose less than half of what the 16 would lose in order for the split to have an EV that is less negative, and this is the case. This is a defensive split.

Along similar lines, doubling on a positive EV hand does not have to win more often than hitting or standing to be correct, it only has to win more than half as often, since we win twice as much when we win.

[Shaggy]

Here is a link to the EV tables for every decision at a blackjack table. The game is 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17.

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/6dh17.htm

This is the data that is used to determine what the basic strategy is. You will notice that the EV to hit 8,8 is -0.53536, the EV to split is -0.4748... therefore it is better to split. No argument. Like Bruce said, this is a defensive split. Either way it sucks, but it sucks less to split.

-Shaggy

[grando]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a link to the EV tables for every decision at a blackjack table. The game is 6 decks, dealer hits soft 17.

http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/6dh17.htm

This is the data that is used to determine what the basic strategy is. You will notice that the EV to hit 8,8 is -0.53536, the EV to split is -0.4748... therefore it is better to split. No argument. Like Bruce said, this is a defensive split. Either way it sucks, but it sucks less to split.

-Shaggy

[/ QUOTE ]

awesome I have been looking for this specific chart!

thanks

[Skipbidder]

Your title caused me to want to come and heckle you. The body of your post is much more reasonable. Yet I still have a compulsion to post. Me, me, me.

Others have already done the real work so I don't have to.