Wheel under threat of flat tire

fabadam · #1 11-06-2006, 03:53 PM

This one was mentioned in my review. I'm not quite sure what my reads at the time were, but probably close to this:
* MP3 is new at the table
* SB is LPP (50/0/0.2) and the main reason I'm at this table
* CO is TAGgish/rocky (20/6/1.2)

Other than that it's your typical full-ring Party 1/2 table after UIGEA: average VPIP in low 20s, if that.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: fabadam is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, fabadam raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, fabadam bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, BB calls, fabadam calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, fabadam checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, BB calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, fabadam ????

I'm interested in all streets, but the main problem is what to do with the river.

Befolder · #2 11-06-2006, 03:58 PM

River: with 4 players, I'm just checking this. Plus anything we win, we're probably splitting anyway.

CrMenace · #3 11-06-2006, 06:29 PM

*grunch*

preflop: standard

flop: board is semi-coordinated, and you have 3 opponents. Betting won't earn you a free card. Your hand is strong, however- likey still best, and the pot is large so you would like to win it. Betting here is a tough call, but in a game I probably do it.

When you bet and are raised, the call is good. The pot lays 15:1 odds, and you have partial outs with the Ks, 5s, and even slim partial outs with the A's. I think the flop raise more likely indicates an overpair or a lone A or 5 than an A5 or a 56.

Turn: The pot lays 10:1. You have the same ~4 outs, so I think a call is good here.

River: c/c. You are most likely chopping the pot here, but I don't think you want to fold unless it is 2+ bets back to you.

Fadook · #4 11-06-2006, 09:08 PM

Fold the turn. Your A outs are no good and you're drawing to a split pot at best.

nach0king · #5 11-07-2006, 12:36 PM

Grunch: Flop is fine

Then on: Allowing for backdoor flushes, with overcard draws and our wheel draw, we have maybe 5 outs? That's not too awful...

As such, I'd be inclined to bet the turn. At least we might scare off the guys who are not MP3 who may also be chasing the wheel.

If raised, check/call your way to showdown unless there's severe action on the river, in which case fold.

DrModern · #6 11-07-2006, 01:19 PM

Hey fab,

Do you mind posting whatever my comments were on this hand, I've misplaced the file and can't remember what I said.

Thanks,
Doc

fabadam · #7 11-08-2006, 02:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey fab,

Do you mind posting whatever my comments were on this hand, I've misplaced the file and can't remember what I said.

Thanks,
Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's what you said:
[ QUOTE ]
You’re chopping a lot here and getting raised sucks. I’d rather check-call. Consider posting this one, I think it’s interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I actually bet and was called by all villains.
SB shows Jd4d, MP3 shows TT, CO shows AcQc.
(I chop with CO)

Fadook · #8 11-08-2006, 08:06 AM

Wow, I'm honestly really surprised that you would have won if an A landed. I'm still not sure about the turn though. It might be interesting to try counting our outs. I'm not really sure how to go about this; let's say 1 out for the A, 1.5 for the K. Given people's love of Ax, I think we have to heavily discount the number of 5 outs, maybe to 2. That gives 4.5 outs in total, so we need something like 9.2:1 to call. You're getting 10.75 pot odds So I guess you just about have enough to call. I'd like to hear other people's input on my numbers for sure.

Edit to add: Nice table where people call the most obvious wheel in the world with a pair! Hope you buddy-listed BB and MP3. Also edited for corrections.