Question about extracting the maximum in a B&M game

[PantherZ]

In a B&M game (say 4/8 to 10/20) where there is a lot of friendly banter, and where the winner is usually showing his hand when not called, do you guys think it is probably a good idea not to extract the maximum on a premium hand (i.e. not checkraising). I’m not sure about this. I might miss out on a big bet here or there, but playing straightforwardly with my big hands might be +EV in the long run.

[Brainwalter]

If you want to be friendly, checkraise, show your hand.

[bav]

Personally, I find checkraises completely friendly. They speak louder than a bet. If I put out a bet, well gee, you MAY be inclined to raise me and cost yourself two bets. If I checkraise your bet, the message is crystal clear and if you go away like you should you're no worse off than if you just called a bet, and you're better off than if you'd tried to raise me. And for that matter, if I was being all friendly and checked the river, exactly how friendly is it that you are betting at me? If you hadn't been unfriendly and bet, you couldn't have been check raised!

Other folks disagree about how friendly checkraises are--sometimes rather vocally. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[thedustbustr]

op,
please explain how missing a bet an hour can be +EV in the long run.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
op,
please explain how missing a bet an hour can be +EV in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the "friendly" fish will enjoy playing with you and will stay longer. +EV

And if you're their "friend" they might take it easy on you. I've had guys that I had a friendly banter with turn up aces so I wouldn't cost myself a bet and could fold safely. +EV

Edited to add that I don't know if its more EV than getting max value for your hands, but that's how it _could_ be.

[ScottHoward]

[ QUOTE ]
In a B&M game (say 4/8 to 10/20) where there is a lot of friendly banter, and where the winner is usually showing his hand when not called, do you guys think it is probably a good idea not to extract the maximum on a premium hand (i.e. not checkraising). I’m not sure about this. I might miss out on a big bet here or there, but playing straightforwardly with my big hands might be +EV in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]
they shoulda mentioned this in the TOP or something

[thedustbustr]

op,
sounds neutral ev at best. they save a bet when you have a monster, you save a bet when they have a monster. except hopefully you have superior reading skills, and can save a bet against their monster anyway. i don't think it's +ev.

i don't see this in the games I play anyway, so take it for what it's worth.

[Aces McGee]

I've found that people who act as you describe don't pay attention to how you play against them nearly as much as they notice how you act towards them. I get treated this way simply by not acting like a douche at the table, which distinguishes me from a disturbingly large number of people you run into in a cardroom.

-McGee

[goofball]

There's no need to do that. The only time I think I've not raised is when someone bet the river, I was thinking about raising, and he showed me his hand (a hand I had beat)becasue he thought he was good and wanted to let me fold. I elected not to raise him.


Generally though don't worry about it. First Aces has a good point, people notice a lot more how you act against them then how you play against them. Second people are are goign to get mad at you for how you play (be it checkraising or hitting a flush draw or whatever) are going to do it no matter how nice you are about it. Friendly and having fun but playing hard is the image you want and should hav.

[engineer_mba]

Hi,

I play low limit live, and I definitely make it a point to be friendly. I never call the floor on some one or ask to see a hand. I try to make small chat about non-poker related stuff, like sports or TV poker. Although, I do chat, I try not to be a talk constantly. Just enough to portray a friendly demeanor that I am there for an evening of fun.

The reason is that I want other people to have fun playing me. The fish who are actually there for a good time want to enjoy their evening, and if they lose $100 bucks in the process, at least they enjoyed it. What I really hate are the people who try to pick the rules and always tell others what to do. There always seems to be one of these at each table, so it is easy for the table to root against him. If the fish are going to be giving me their money, I want to encourage them to play with me and enjoy themselves as much as possible.

All that being said, I try to play correct poker. I will check-raise if necessary, and definitely try to win the pots I am in. But all the while with a smile on my face. When I win, I quietly stack the chips. When I lose, I am either quiet or compliment them saying "Wow! You had a lot better hand than I thought.". I think "Nice Hand" is a little over used, and I definitely want them to remember beating me.

In the end, fish are going to lose their money. They are either going to give it to someone who is a nice friendly guy, some one who is all business, or some one who is jerk and makes fun of them. I prefer to be in the first category, but there are definitely people in the other groups.

Just my two cents,

Leo