rivered 2pair facing overbet FTP 25-50

[ceczar]

villian is arabiannight (i have him at roughly 18/12). we are playing on two tables currently, and have been for several hours. probably views me as willing to make thin/weak calls (though not necessarily on the river, i'm sure i'm bluffed out way too much on the river).

4 handed
villain (9,435) UTG
hero (6,242) B with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

villain raises to 175, hero calls, blinds fold

flop (422): Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
villain bets 350, hero calls
arabiannight is more than willing to repop with a Q or better here and i don't want to get blown off. he knows my range is pretty wide here (any pair or FD or OESD). mistake to call here even sometimes?

turn (1122): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
villain bets 850, hero calls
i think a call here is the only option, anyone disagree?

river (2822): K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
villain pushes, hero ?? (4,867 to call)

never seen him do this before, only thing i could think is a set hoping to get paid off by KQ/QJ here, but my hand is so underrepped. expecting most of you will say easy fold

[donkey]

yes, calling is the only option on the turn.

on the river, it's an easy fold against a bad/average player. against a good player i dunno, flip a coin.

[cero_z]

Hi ceczar,

This one really depends on what he thinks about you. You seem to think that you are a bit of a station until the river, at which point you fold too much. If this is how he views you, as well, then you have to call here; this is the kind of river that would make it really tough on a hand that was trying to get to showdown while controlling the pot size. That's what it really looks like to me, in most cases. The exception would be if he just views you as a station, period--but then it's obvious that he'll rarely be bluffing here. With the info provided, I'd say you have a fairly easy call, though obviously you can only beat a bluff.

Regarding the flop play, you should be raising here A LOT. If he 3-bets a lot with a Q or better, then you should just shove/call when he 3-bets. You're not usually in bad shape at all here, and quite often, he just can't call the raise. Habitually not raising in this spot vs. a decent, aggressive player is surely a leak. You have to find lots of places where you keep yourself from getting run over, to balance the times when you are fastplaying big hands against these players. Flush draws with an overcard and backdoor straight draw are good spots to do this.

[BobboFitos]

cero is right, this is a good spot to crank it up on the flop

also, i would definately call the river. if you were unlucky enough to RR 2pair vs QQ KQ or 22/33, then so be it.

[Mad Genius1]

Against particular villian this is a clear fold.

[Big_Jim]

AT[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[Jazzy3113]

from the background info you gave and my observations of night, I think he has the ability to push a busted flush draw here as many times as he pushes a set. I think your two pair is good here more often then not so call.
Results?

[Well_TiMeD]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, calling is the only option on the turn.

on the river, it's an easy fold against a bad/average player. against a good player i dunno, flip a coin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, but lean moreso towards calling in this spot. Its an obvious nutts/nothing type scenario. From what I know, arbian is at least an agressive regular in these games. I think he puts you on a queen or busted draw or any other small two pair hand he thinks you can fold.. it really looks like a bluff to me b/c with a high set or hand that has been dominating you all the way through, I think he prolly tries to get value you out of you; pushing here with a big hand for him IS a good play but i think from his perspective its very thin.. (plus you mentioned he doesnt do it much) I expect to see A10 from him most times hes beating you.

[CASINOCASINO]

1

[CASINOCASINO]

IF STACKS WERE 5K WOULD ANYONE CONSIDERING SHOVING THE TURN A GOOD PLAY?