Question on show both cards at showdown rule.

shag · #1 11-02-2006, 03:31 PM

Ok..

Live 5/10NL at The Wynn... basically I bluffed the turn and have no pair by the river. There is an A on the board. HU pot. Villain checks river I check behind. Villain flips up an A and I say its good and muck my hand. Pot gets pushed to villain and dealer washes the cards. I now point out that he only showed one card. Dealer says well you mucked your hand so he gets the pot regardless... Now the pot was probably about $400 bucks but I didn't feel like being a prick so I just let it go especially considering the fact that he did for sure have the best hand.

I know a player must show two cards to get the pot. What happens here after the dealer kills his hand... Do they chop the pot? Do I get the pot?

RR · #2 11-02-2006, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok..

Live 5/10NL at The Wynn... basically I bluffed the turn and have no pair by the river. There is an A on the board. HU pot. Villain checks river I check behind. Villain flips up an A and I say its good and muck my hand. Pot gets pushed to villain and dealer washes the cards. I now point out that he only showed one card. Dealer says well you mucked your hand so he gets the pot regardless... Now the pot was probably about $400 bucks but I didn't feel like being a prick so I just let it go especially considering the fact that he did for sure have the best hand.

I know a player must show two cards to get the pot. What happens here after the dealer kills his hand... Do they chop the pot? Do I get the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

He won. You threw your hand away. The dealer doesn't kill hands for only showing one card, he just waits for the player to show the other card or throw his hand away (the dealer should not read the hand with only one card showing either). When there is only one player left with cards that is who the pot goes to.

AngusThermopyle · #3 11-02-2006, 03:37 PM

You mucked.
You lose.
Period.

If he had shown the Ace and then mucked the hand, without showing the second card, and you still had your hand, then you have a different case.

Mygtar · #4 11-02-2006, 03:37 PM

Shag to the best of my limited knowledge you have no case as you mucked your cards. The dealer should have had the other player show the other card where he showed the one. You could have asked to see the other card all the cards were not mucked.

At Foxwoods 4/8 LHE table you would have heard all nine players ask to see the other card! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Peace,
Mygtar

Rottersod · #5 11-02-2006, 07:37 PM

Technically the rules say the he needed to show both cards to be awarded the pot however since you mucked after seeing the one card and you announced that he had the better hand I don't know that any Floor would rule his hand was dead and chop the pot. I can't think of more than 3 times in 20+ years that I've seen a ruling for a chopped pot. Rulings try to award a pot to the rightful winner and this is a case where he was the rightful winner even though he only showed one card.

Percula · #6 11-02-2006, 08:00 PM

By mucking you surrendered your hand, there really wasn't a showdown in the hand. The only live hand gets the pot.

[ QUOTE ]
I know a player must show two cards to get the pot. What happens here after the dealer kills his hand... Do they chop the pot? Do I get the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a room dependent rule. Not all rooms have this rule, most do and more are using this all the time. Don't count on this rule in all rooms.

So in your situation, lets say you didn't muck your hand and did not table your hand, then I would expect the dealer to say something like "You must show both cards to win the pot". I would not expect the dealer to kill any hand.

Or a slightly different order of operations... check, check, guy tables a ace, then you muck. In a 5/10 NL, no cap game I would not expect anyone to say anything. But technically he should have to flip the second card to get the push. But as you already kind of figured out, it aint no thing to be mess'in with the table's mood over.

GreedIsGood · #7 11-02-2006, 08:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok..

Live 5/10NL at The Wynn... basically I bluffed the turn and have no pair by the river. There is an A on the board. HU pot. Villain checks river I check behind. Villain flips up an A and I say its good and muck my hand. Pot gets pushed to villain and dealer washes the cards. I now point out that he only showed one card. Dealer says well you mucked your hand so he gets the pot regardless... Now the pot was probably about $400 bucks but I didn't feel like being a prick so I just let it go especially considering the fact that he did for sure have the best hand.

I know a player must show two cards to get the pot. What happens here after the dealer kills his hand... Do they chop the pot? Do I get the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now why would you possibly get the pot?

steamboatin · #8 11-02-2006, 08:51 PM

Rules vary from state to state and cardroom to cardroom. It is my understanding that here in Indiana, at the showdown, you must show both hole cards (all four in Omaha) to be awarded a pot.

bav · #9 11-02-2006, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Rules vary from state to state and cardroom to cardroom. It is my understanding that here in Indiana, at the showdown, you must show both hole cards (all four in Omaha) to be awarded a pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's a pretty universal rule. But the point isn't so much whether this was the rule or not, it's what do you do when someone violates the letter of the rule?

At least his opponent showed one card, while shaq didn't show either. NO way, NO how is shaq getting any piece of that pot. You can't yell "he didn't show both cards, give me the pot" when you didn't show ANY cards. I think it's more a tiny dealer error for not requesting the winner table the 2nd card, but that's nitly. If anybody really cared they shoulda asked to see it.

But let's say the guy shows one card. Shaq tables his hand. And his opponent sees that his lone card proves he has a winner and he buries his second card face down irretrievably into the muck. NOW we have an issue. But shaq still isn't getting the pot every time because it would be so unfair to the guy who showed half the winning hand. Yes, he violated the letter of the rule. But to take the pot from him for being ignorant of the "show both cards" rule would be very unfair. So it's going to be a bit tough on the floor, but I think most will just tell the guy who buried his 2nd card to not do that again and still award him the pot.

steamboatin · #10 11-02-2006, 10:57 PM

Shag doesn't get the pot, period. My comment was that the other party would be required to turn the other card over. shag mucks, shag has no claim to the pot in this situation.

The only way I know that shag gets the pot requires a completely different scenario. If the other guy intentionally miscalls his hand and shag mucks a winner but that is clearly not the case in this situation.