60-120 hand against mimi tran

[mike l.]

i have Ac4c in the bb in a good 5 handed 60-120 game at commerce. mimi has recently joined the game and i only played with her once before (2-4 at the bike earlier this year). she seems possibly tilty irritated but i dont know for sure. she's been slumming sort of lately playing relatively smaller games.

anyway onto the hand: we're 5 handed (the game is permanently short, a dying must move game). she openraises in the cutoff, sb who is a definite fish with loose random tendencies calls, i call. 3 of us.

the flop is AJJ rainbow. fish bets into the field, i call, mimi calls.

the turn is a 6 offsuit. fish checks, i bet, mimi raises, fish folds. i call.

the river is a Q. i check, mimi bets and she does so like this: she is leaning back in her seat, seems kinda bored, puts the six chips just barely past her stack a few inches, not even as far as the line. i think forever and ...?

[tongni]

I would check the turn, or fold to the turn raise.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
mimi bets and she does so like this: she is leaning back in her seat, seems kinda bored, puts the six chips just barely past her stack a few inches, not even as far as the line. i think forever and ...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Reverse tells are one thing, but nobody ever uses 20 reverse tells at once. She's leaning back because she has nothing to worry about. She seems bored because she has the winning hand and is just waiting for the pot to come toward her whether you call or fold. She put her 6 chips right in front of her so they're easier to retrieve after she wins. You fold because you have the loser, but I don't understand the turn call at all. You have the best hand like never, you're getting 8:1 or so, with all of your "outs" giving you half/none of the pot.

[mike l.]

"I don't understand the turn call at all. You have the best hand like never,"

youve never seen someone take her line w/ KK or something? then the river goes check-check and last to act says "your ace is good"?

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
"I don't understand the turn call at all. You have the best hand like never,"

youve never seen someone take her line w/ KK or something? then the river goes check-check and last to act says "your ace is good"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, no I haven't. However, you play way higher than me, which probably means you encounter fewer subhuman zombies and more people making aggressive plays like this, so that isn't surprising.

That said, she can't expect fish to fold an A without a court order, it's quite reasonable/likely for you to have an A, so raising this turn with KK for a free showdown seems like a spew to me since she is either behind or the opponent has exactly 2 or 4 outs if she's ahead and I'd rather let them try to bluff me out on the river than to force them to fold.

Was she giving off any sort of vibes on her turn raise? Or did it only happen at the river?

[NLfool]

once in a blue moon I like to donk around and play limit. If you're going to bet the turn as you did. I prefer to raise flop, bet the turn and fold to a raise. Seems you can be infinitely more sure about the turn by investing 1/2 BB on the flop. I'm not sold on mimi doing the free showdown raise in this spot with KK.

I'd appreciate any harsh criticism or input as I do plan on playing live limit again sometime soon.

edit: oh yeah the flop scenario is based on you betting the turn which I'm not sold on. I'd make up my mind on the turn to check and call the river online but live that Q river doesn't look good and check folding river isn't out of the question, is it?

[mike l.]

"However, you play way higher than me"

then ask more questions and read more and assume less.

[Josh W]

Wow. I don't like this at all. I don't know what I don't like, but I don't like it.

I think you have to raise the flop. The SB is a wildcard with loose random tendencies. You're prolly at least even money against him.

Mimi may be slumming, but she's still a thinking player. Why let her see the turn for cheap with QT or 77 or T9s where she plans to make a play on the turn?

I mean, obviously she's capable of putting you in a semi difficult spot. If she remembers you, she may think you're slumming (thus running bad, playing scared, who knows what).

I realize that the flop is a semi-classic WayAheadWayBehind spot, but you're out of position vs the tough player. Plus, the SB may have A2, A3, A5, etc, and make a stupid fold on the turn when a small card bricks off (unlikely, but possible).

But you didn't raise the flop. So, now we have some trickier decisions. I just wrote out something longwinded and uninteresting, then deleted it for this long winded and uninteresting response.

She has you beat. In my experience, the "barely put the chips in past the line" bet is usually a very big hand. I'd like to think that I'd have done something different to get here, but now, I think I fold.

Josh

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
"However, you play way higher than me"

then ask more questions and read more and assume less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally I agree, which is why I rarely post in Higher Stakes unless I feel the hand is likely one with a situation that I would be in while playing in one of my typical games. This was one of those hands.

[brick]

She might not be worried because now she is chopping with some of the hands that were ahead. Could she have AT-A2?