Poker - Skill or Luck game?

[KajunKenny]

Hello,
I am sorta new here, but I have been involved in some other boards for a while now. I made a post on one of these boards about the new "law" and have been in a debate. These people to think that poker is just like roulette/slots/video poker. They don't believe that poker is a game of skill. After repeated request for these fish to join my home game, I finally decided to ask here and see if one of ya'll could put it better then me.

So, please give me your best post on how poker is more a skill game then a luck game or vice-versa.

My basic arguement is that skill is only a short term factor in poker. Of course I got it thrown in my face that no ametuer golfers could beat Tiger Woods at the masters, but anyone could bust Brunson out of the WSOP.

Please help!

[crfergu]

Short Answer - Long term skill, short term luck.
Long Answer - Search prior threads; Others have explained it better than I ever could.

[Rollos]

"Skill" and "luck" are too vague of terms.
Poker is a gambling game where it is possible to gain an edge.
If I had to pick one, I would pick luck because, to me, a game of skill is one where you directly affect the outcome, and since you can't control the cards, there is no skill.

[tautomer]

The skill comes in forcing people to pay too much to get lucky, not to mention taking advantage when others don't return the favor.

[gull]

Define luck.

[JaredL]

It's a game of skill where luck plays a large role. Which is more important depends on the amount of time. In the short-run luck is much more important while in the long run skill is the only thing that matters (and we're all dead).

[Gonso]

There's a large number of threads on this topic already.

No sense trying to be a table tutor to your friends. Trying to explain even the most basic poker theory to the average Joe is usually a waste of time anyway.

[Poker Plan]

Skill AND Luck.

It can't be described as one OR the other.

[KajunKenny]

My basic sentiment is that skill does outcome how one does at poker. Sure luck has an outcome in individual hands. But there's a reason why fish lose money. It's not because they are just un-lucky. It's because they don't have the skill to lay hands down etc..etc. This is a tough subject to explain to people without getting to technical. That's the problem. I think it would of been better if they just came to my home game.

[PantsOnFire]

Well in my own case, I am more successful now than when I started two years ago. I have read more books, gained more experience and studied the game and how others play.

I can't quantify my own luck factor but if I am to assume it has been on average the same over the last two years then my increase in success (monetarily and results-wise) has to be due to my increase in skill.

In this game though, I do believe that luck is a much larger factor than almost any other type of game where skill is also involved. To me that has two consequences. First, I believe that skill is more important in this game and second, I believe that short term luck can effectively mask skill, making it difficult to envision how skill can overcome such large swings in luck.

This causes threads and polls and discussions like this one along with bad beat stories, bemoaning about rigged poker sites and other forms of crying.