Iraqi soldiers: "When America leaves we'll quit"

[Annies_Beaver]

Some e-mail snippets written by Captain Robert Secher that shed light on what is really happening in Iraq:

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Anytime an American fires a weapon there has to be an investigation into why there was an escalation of force. That wouldn't have stopped us from firing, but it prevents us from just firing indiscriminately. We have to have positively identified targets. That is why I am now a big fan of having the Iraqis with us. They can fire at whatever the hell they want, we call it the "Iraqi Death Blossom." These guys receive one shot and the whole unit fires at everything in sight until the attached American unit gets them to control their fire. That's fine with me.

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My 3 month informed opinion (based entirely on what I see in the Hit region) is that this war is futile. Even the Iraqi soldiers tell us that when America leaves, they'll quit.

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The biggest lesson I have learned over 6 months here is that the Iraqi culture is incapable of maintaining a western style military. The Arabic-style military [...] is distasteful to western soldiers: officers who hit their men; officers and senior enlisted men who regularly steal from their men; using leadership to openly grant yourself more food and 'standard of living' items while your men go without [...]

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Of course you've heard about two different sets of Marines being charged with murder. [...]

I feel bad for those guys. Bush should be ashamed of the predicament that this nation has been put in. And anyone who calls those young Marines killers should think twice. War puts perfectly ordinary young men in situations that can't be judged by laws. They are the situations of survival. The dirty little secrets of war, no one would want to know the horrible things that the "greatest generation" did to German and Japanese soldiers and civilians. [...] If you really want to win a war you have to be brutal. You have to be Sherman and raze Georgia as you march to the sea.


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Captain Secher died two days later, shot by a sniper while on patrol in Hit. "There are many challenges out here," Marine spokesman Lt. Col. Bryan Salas told NEWSWEEK. "Captain Secher and the Marines who worked with him tackled those challenges with tremendous zeal, and served with dedication and great personal sacrifice. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family."

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Reading this and thinking about the lies told by our President makes me physically ill.

[BluffTHIS!]

canis/counter/whiskey/whoever-you-really-are,

If you are going to assert the president lied, then give evidence for same. All you've given here is accounts of the experiences of US soldiers there.

[MidGe]

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canis/counter/whiskey/whoever-you-really-are,

If you are going to assert the president lied, then give evidence for same. All you've given here is accounts of the experiences of US soldiers there.

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What were the reasons for going to war with Iraq, initially?

[Myrtle]

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canis/counter/whiskey/whoever-you-really-are,

If you are going to assert the president lied, then give evidence for same. All you've given here is accounts of the experiences of US soldiers there.

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Uh huh.....

You must be right, Bluff. Why should the experiences of the men who have been put in the position to carry the load of this adminstrations policy matter?

I'd much rather listen to the opinions of someone like yourself, as you sit home in the safety of your own little world posting your itellectual 'prove it' rebuttal rhetoric.

Have you any idea how out of touch with reality your above statement is?

Consider this.....For every soldier who has been killed in Iraq, there is a group of relatives and friends of same whose lives have been tragically and seriously altered.....for the rest of their lives.

....For every soldier who has been maimed or wounded in Iraq, there has been, and will continue to be, much pain & suffering for not only them, but their loved ones.

....For every soldier who participated in the war in Iraq, their lives have been changed in the most basic and profound manner. Have you ever heard of PTSS? Have you any idea of its' affect upon all of those who are close to anyone who suffers from it?

IMO, your statement above reveals a position that you have taken that is callous in the extreme and borders on sociopathic.

You truly ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Are you now going to whine to the mods that I have 'personaly attacked' you, and demand my banning?

....Knock yourself out.

[Annies_Beaver]

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If you are going to assert the president lied, then give evidence for same. All you've given here is accounts of the experiences of US soldiers there.


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Here's one outright lie

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The Iraqi leadership is apparently just as unconcerned as Bush about the American people's expectations of a timetable for an exit for our troops. Bush says Maliki agreed to a "schedule" for reconciliation and the formation of a 'democracy'. But, Maliki balked at that suggestion earlier, saying, "The Americans have the right to review their policies but we do not believe in a timetable and no one will impose one on us."

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Do you believe in this war? Is your life more valuable than Captain Robert Secher's? If the president said he needed more troops to "win" in Iraq, would you sign up to go?

You seem to get a kick out of verbal misdirection and participating in the right-wing spin machine. I don't think I could stomach that myself while good Americans are being sent to die for no reason.

As for "winning in Iraq," how would you define success? Is "success" possible when the Iraqis don't want us there and will quit fighting the insurgents as soon as we leave?

[Joe Camel]

It makes perfect sense that Iraqi soldiers would plan on quitting once the US is gone. Their motivation for joining the military at all is just to make the best of a terrible situation. They're just trying to pay the bills.

The current propaganda campaign says that the US will leave once Iraq has its own government and military to take care of itself. That is BS. The US is staying in Iraq until it becomes politically unfeasible, which the powers that be hope is forever.

[[Phill]]

The point is the Iraqi soldiers cannot protect themselves, let alone the innocent bystanders in the civil war that iraq is on the brink of.

Ironically, if you think all American soldiers will be pulled out whilst there are still american companies in Iraq you are very mistaken.

Iraq is a true mess, through and through. Good job this was about oil, and had nothing to do with bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq and defeating the terrorists because its a real failure on those two fronts.

[Richard Tanner]

I love the opinions that alot of people seem to have about the war and the mess it turned into. People say the president lied, and there doesn't seem to be much evidence that he didn't. I mean there's enough material to make a Daily Show style montage of his follies.
That said, I'm curious of the other side as well, the people that say "well the war is wrong" and that "we shouldn't invade countries like that ever". Now on Iraq, I'd say this is a tough example. Saddam never had Nukes nor ties to large terrorist organizations, and aside from the usual middle eastern "death to america" stuff, never harmed us. On the other hand, he was a genocidal maniacal sociopath that MIGHT have posed a danger to us in the future.
Where my difficulty lies is those that say we shouldn't "play world's police" yet would probably be upset if someone that bought a nuke off Afganastan (back when they were selling them to anyone with a hard on for Islam) turned DC into a radioactive ash pile.
See the problem is that even if you want no country in the world to be in charge, someone still has to be in charge to make sure no one is. We aren't isolated on a tiny island, we face real threats by countries and groups that are lower on the cultural ladder.
And yes, to head off the comments, western democracy is BETTER than middle eastern dictatorships (and most ME "democracies"). Protection of Minorites and civil rights are BETTER then autocracy and theocracy.
My real question for anti-war people (honest question, I really want to get people's take on this) is do we have the obligation to "enlighten" the rest of the world, sometimes by force. Hell if we can do it by dropping a McDonalds in their capital, I'm all for that too (after all it's easier to invade a country with Arches than with Armies). Do we have the responsibility to play cop, or should we keep to ourselves and focus mainly on police investigation and border control?

Cody

[AlexM]

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Here's one

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I didn't see any lie in there. Of course, although I loathe Bush and his policies, I've never seen a provable lie attached to him either.

[Grey]

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I've never seen a provable lie attached to him either.

[/ QUOTE ]Holy crap. This is really scary. Just google "bush lies". He is caught in a provable lie every friggin week.

Hell, just a couple days ago he said "we've never been about stay the course".