JTs, MP, limper in front

ThunderEagle · #1 10-27-2006, 07:25 PM

UTG+1 is a little loose, and very passive both pre and post flop.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Single limper in front, I'm trying to see a cheap flop.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, SB folds, BB calls.

I believe I should have raised this to help protect my hand. Everyone else folded anyhow.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero ????

tyler_cracker · #2 10-27-2006, 07:43 PM

raising the flop is crucial here.

there is no value in raising the turn; you're not going to fold both villains. plus, you can usually make up the extra bet anyway by raising the river if you hit one of your many outs.

BigBadBabar · #3 10-27-2006, 07:47 PM

yeah tyler said it, easy flop raise

bbb

runnawaybus · #4 10-27-2006, 07:55 PM

Raise this flop, but as played I would raise the turn here due to the added FD.

Niediam · #5 10-28-2006, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]

there is no value in raising the turn; you're not going to fold both villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. We probably have the best hand here and the raise is for value and/or we increase our chances of winning the pot by having BB fold. I agree that it's very unlikely that both villians fold but I don't see why that should stop us from playing aggressively with a good hand...

Yort Mada · #6 10-28-2006, 05:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

there is no value in raising the turn; you're not going to fold both villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. We probably have the best hand here and the raise is for value and/or we increase our chances of winning the pot by having BB fold. I agree that it's very unlikely that both villians fold but I don't see why that should stop us from playing aggressively with a good hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, i agree. our hand went from good to probly better. i dont see any reason not to raise the flop and turn.

SuLi · #7 10-28-2006, 07:06 AM

Since UTG+1 is "very passive" I would expect to be behind and call the turn.

Flop raise is a must. Reaction from UTG+1 would have been interesting..

ThunderEagle · #8 10-28-2006, 09:48 AM

I went ahead and raised the turn. I probably wouldn't have without the added flush draw.

BB Folded.

Villian just called.

River is a 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villian checks, I bet, he calls.

Villian shows A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

nach0king · #9 10-28-2006, 01:16 PM

Grunch:

Raise the turn, you have excellent odds to make a flush and a decent chance at the top pair to win. If UTG+1 wasn't so loose postflop I'd advocate a fold but he might be protecting a drawing hand or it's possible he also has a jack. However with the possibility of a flush it's essential that you raise IMO.

(Having grunched I now read the other replies. Raising the flop didn't occur to me but that also makes sense.)

NIX · #10 10-28-2006, 02:48 PM

I agree with the flop raise, but I don't like a turn raise. If UTG+1 is very passive post flop, he's probably betting something strong and we won't lose him with a turn raise. If he has a monster, we may get 3bet which would be bad. If he doesn't have a monster, calling the turn and raising the river if we improve nets us 3 BB. Calling twice only loses us 2 BB if behind (and there is a good chance we are if UTG+1 is super passive).