Defining the MUCK

[AlienBoy]

Here's a weird one.

Hustler Live NL Hold'Em

All cards are dealt - I muck my hand, someone asks to see it and the dealer shows, saying my cards weren't on the muck but were on the remaining deck.

I believe this is wrong - the deck and all discards become the much after the last card is dealt, no?


AB

[AngusThermopyle]

Why did he get to see them in the first place? You flash your cards to someone?

[RobTheDuck]

I've heard rulings where your cards were mucked once they hit the dead card pile, and I've heard rulings where your cards are dead as soon as they move toward the dealer face down.

I too am confused about why he got to see your mucked cards.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a weird one.

Hustler Live NL Hold'Em

All cards are dealt - I muck my hand, someone asks to see it and the dealer shows, saying my cards weren't on the muck but were on the remaining deck.

I believe this is wrong - the deck and all discards become the much after the last card is dealt, no?


AB

[/ QUOTE ]

Also need more information before making a reasonable comment.

~ Rick

[ZPinhead]

Sounds like it's probably a IWTSTH request. Then it's less of a question of whether your hand was in the muck but rather was it retrievable (depending on house rules). In either case your hand is dead (and as another post pointed out, dead even with only forward movement but without touching other mucked cards).

[Dozer64]

I saw this exact thing happen while I was playing at The Golden Nugget (nice room). The cards were actually jammed in the muck, but still able to identify the cards. A guy said IWTSTH and the dealer pulled them out of the muck & flipped them over.

Guy freaks out and chaos insues. Floor comes over and actually gave a good explanation in the defense of his dealer. Here it is:

His cards were dead regardless if they are in the muck or not (he pitched them forward), so the fact that they were in the muck didn't matter.

He went on to say that if someone were actually colluding, then all you have to do is fire his cards into the muck.

I thought they were wrong for pulling the cards outta the muck, but after explaination, it made sense to me.

[RR]

This reminds me of a hand I dealt long ago. SOmeone asked to see the one seat's hand. I had the muck protected per procedures. The player grabbed my left thumb and bent it backwards until I let go of the muck. He then threw a fit and called the floor over when I pulled his cards right out of the muck and showed them.

[AlienBoy]

Well slap me silly - I found this in Robert's Rules:

5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.



I guess I was just irritated at this guy being such a NIT about it... I stacked him twice later on... LOL

AB