Relearning from the bottom - my short handed poker experiance

[*TT*]

I've been playing shorthanded hold'em for almost a year now; I really don’t know what made me wait so long to switch from full ring. I am only a part time player due to my career and other life influences playing no more than 5k hands/week if I am lucky. I moved very fast up the ranks because my ability to read hands became very good, thanks to the small stakes forum which I used to participate a lot in when some of the best of 2+2's thinkers were there, and some really fantastic players with who I still share hands with occasionally (most of us don’t need to share hands as often as we used to, I think we have all learned to analyze our own strengths and weaknesses over time in 95% of most scenarios). When I switched to short handed play I was playing 3-4 tables of 5/10 with an occasional 10/20 full online or 20/40 live.

When I started my short handed game I decided to start from the bottom at 1/2... and it really kicked my azz. I didn't know what I was doing wrong; my timing and feel for the table had been lost. I was playing correctly pre-flop from day one (except in the blinds but that’s for another part of this post) but I was getting crushed post-flop because my ability to read hands was totally lost in the adjustment from full ring. I could no longer determine hand ranges when I had a table full of 40-60VPIP players, I was a stranger in a strange land. Eventually I adjusted... and suddenly my full ring game took on a new life because I started applying the concepts I learned from short games such as isolating very light. In short SSHE suddenly became weak-tight for me in some games I regularly play in live [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I once again moved fast up the ranks, shortly I was crushing 5/10 6max 3 tables at a time, preferring to play 3-4 handed as often as possible. I had 60k hands under my belt (that’s a lot for me) at a BB/100 that was hovering around 3 +/- a few ticks on a day to day basis. As I started to transition to 10/20 6max and 40/80 live full ring games at the same time I took up playing in HU matches. I really enjoyed playing HU, and I was a small winner, but I knew there was so much more to HU play than I had determined to date, luckily noted poker author Byron Jacobs (How Good is your Limit Hold'em) and I chat occasionally so I turned to him. Byron had recently switched to playing HU limit hold'em exclusively, through a series of short and very effective emails he mentored my HU game to the point where I was absolutely destroying games up to 10/20, and I lost only one match on my HULA team. - and that’s when tragedy struck - I started a very long loosing streak in all non-HU ring games.

It took me far too long to realize I cannot play HU and short handed in back to back sessions or I become a total spew monster. It also took me a few months to realize that dedicated HU play had actually hurt by ability to play in the blinds in full ring and short handed games.... I was tossing chips around left and right, never adjusting for the thought process of a standard ring game player in a blind vs. blind scenario. Suffice to say I quit playing HU and forced myself to relearn all that I had ignored in my meteoric rise. But it was too late, I was down to a 1.6 BB/100 win rate over 110k hands (I think that number is correct, its still respectable but no where as solid as I was at before - variance/running hot being a factor of course) and lost a ton of my online bankroll.

My next stage in evolution came after I started to watch Stoxtraders videos. Now I have always played more conservatively than many of the SSSH players, but for the first time I was able to watch someone who played almost exactly like me (without the steaming factor of course - Stox is da man!). The most important thing I learned from Stox was the equity adjustments that the small blind adds in different game structures - I always adjusted to the game structure while in the SB, but I never befor3e thought about adjusting my play in other positions to compensate for the size fluctuations of the small blind. The other thing that I found very interesting was watching Stox play at levels that were clearly not his average game, such as 1/2 or .50/1, where he would repeatedly comment on how the play was very passive and how it was hard for him to adjust at times because nobody would ever open-limp in his normal high stakes games. As you are about to learn this really struck a chord with me.... and not a moment too soon.

The week that the new anti-internet gambling bill was passed, my lawyer advised me to immediately withdraw all of my funds from online play. He believes that Neteller will be forced to quit the US market within the year, and at the time his fear was that my bank may implement a block on Neteller transactions long before the 270 day period ends which would leave us high and dry with funds sitting in Neteller accounts that we cannot transfer from (I am no longer concerned about this since we have learned that the law only stops transactions from US bank accounts, not the other direction). So I withdrew all of my money except $120 in Stars and $120 in UB because I was willing to lose that small amount, but I wasn't willing to stop playing poker!

Now we are getting to the meat of this post... with only $120 in my UB account to play Hold'em (I'm not playing Triple Draw online anymore), and $120 in Stars to play HORSE, it was time to start back at the bottom again. I decided I would rampage up the limits, playing no more than 1 (sometimes 2) tables at each stop n the limits until I had 150BB for the next limit (that’s 3 buyins at UB). I thought it would be a grind like it was the first time I moved up the ranks filled with suckout after suckout from lose/passive calling stations and hyper aggressive fishy types but then I discovered something that was oddly surprising..... I am 10x the player I was when I first started to play small stakes short handed games. It’s as if I am a Jedi master now, I can "feel" the table. I know when to play ABC, I know when to just call with my premium drawing hands rather than raise to isolate, I know when to valuebet A high w/J kicker on the river and expect to be called with an inferior hand, and I know when to make wild and formerly hopeless bluffs - on all 3 streets. What I rediscovered is my ability to focus on one table at a time and never get bored like I used to, learning each opponent's traits quickly and efficiently so I was able to counter their moves and dodge their sneaky attacks with ease. I'm surprised I am saying thins, but dropping back down to /50/1 was probably the best thing I could have done for my game, and I don't regret it one bit. 2 weeks later I'm about to move up to 3/6, all from the initial $120 which I left behind at UB.

The moral of this long and winded post is as you grow as a player, never forget to review and revisit the lower levels to really bone up on your hand reading skills. If you can put an opponent on a range and he has a 75VPIP, then you can conquer the world! I put my ego aside as I think all of us should, I know it has helped me restore my long lost love for the game.

PS: expect to see me playing 5/10 6max once again within the month.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Leader]

Very interesting. gl, bro

[ticenl]

What a great post!

Especially the part of moving down in limits and feeling like a jedi master, it sounds like something I should try atleast. It is probably the best way to gain some confidence about your own game and watch all the progression you've made since you started playing poker.

[poisonxfree]

Amazing post. This part definitely hit home for me right now:


"It took me far too long to realize I cannot play HU and short handed in back to back sessions or I become a total spew monster."

During July and the first half of August I played solely 2/4 and 3/6 6max on Party and did great. In august I decided to go back to WPEX. I played there when they first opened [also when I first started playing shorthanded] and pretty much got my ass handed to me. I felt more confident in my game now, and the rb would be nice. I was also inspired by a friend, and somewhat by a few of Guruman's posts, to atrt venturing into 3 and 4 handed games.

At first I did horribly. I was not adjusting to the play properly. Once I was able to adjust, I did well over the last half of August and most of September playing almost exclusively at WPEX. In september I decided that I wanted to move up, and I felt like I should do that on other sites since I feel the competition to be a bit stiffer at WPEX. Enter October.

I close off September and enter October killing the 3/6 and 5/10 games. I thought I was playing well and running well to boot. Between Wednesday evening and Friday afternoon of this last week, I dropped 170BB quick. I have a friend who used to play a lot of SH limit, took a break, switched games, etc. but is now playing SH LHE again, around 10/20. He has been looking over my play and I have been discussing my thoughts on hundreds of hands with him.

When discussing a particular hand he made a comment which made it all hit home. "That thinking is much more for 3 and 4 handed games, and over aggressive ones than the one you are playing in." I did not adjust at all to the new games I was playing. I have finished reading through all of the hands I've played this month and I feel like I am looking at them from an entirely new perspective.


EDIT: Sorry to steal your thunder [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. That came out far longer than I was expecting. Your post was quite inspirational.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]

The moral of this long and winded post is as you grow as a player, never forget to review and revisit the lower levels to really bone up on your hand reading skills. If you can put an opponent on a range and he has a 75VPIP, then you can conquer the world!


[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree with this. You cannot put a VPIP 75 low stakes player in a range of hands unless you have supernatural abilities. Going back to low limits is not gonna help your game at all. It can help your ego but not your game.

About the rest of your post. If you were "crashing" HU 10/20 games then why didn't you stay there? IMO someone who is crashing HU games can easily be a winner in any game, SH and FR after making the necessary adjustments.

[elffaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The moral of this long and winded post is as you grow as a player, never forget to review and revisit the lower levels to really bone up on your hand reading skills. If you can put an opponent on a range and he has a 75VPIP, then you can conquer the world!


[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree with this. You cannot put a VPIP 75 low stakes player in a range of hands unless you have supernatural abilities. Going back to low limits is not gonna help your game at all. It can help your ego but not your game.

About the rest of your post. If you were "crashing" HU 10/20 games then why didn't you stay there? IMO someone who is crashing HU games can easily be a winner in any game, SH and FR after making the necessary adjustments.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PokerSparky]

Good post TT. So does this mean we can expect you to contribute to this forum a bit more?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post TT. So does this mean we can expect you to contribute to this forum a bit more?

[/ QUOTE ]

unfortunately not at this time, I don't have the free time I used to have [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I stop by occasionally, but the strat forums really suck me in for hours which is counter productive. I'll be moving soon, hopefully I will have more time once again for strat posts when I do.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The moral of this long and winded post is as you grow as a player, never forget to review and revisit the lower levels to really bone up on your hand reading skills. If you can put an opponent on a range and he has a 75VPIP, then you can conquer the world!


[/ QUOTE ]

I completely disagree with this. You cannot put a VPIP 75 low stakes player in a range of hands unless you have supernatural abilities. Going back to low limits is not gonna help your game at all. It can help your ego but not your game.

About the rest of your post. If you were "crushing" HU 10/20 games then why didn't you stay there? IMO someone who is crashing HU games can easily be a winner in any game, SH and FR after making the necessary adjustments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Everyone has a different motivation, mine isn't money, I want to be the best player I can possibly be and money will follow suit over time. HU hurt my ring game, and I enjoy playing ring more than HU so I stopped. Over time I'll bring that back into the mix, but for now I am focused on rampaging up the limits. This has been a fun two weeks, I love poker again!

And yes you can put a 75VPIP person on a range of hands once you hit the turn, if you care enough to learn about how the opponent plays, thinks, and reacts. Its not easy of course, but you have to keep in mind that a range is very different than a specific hand. Of course its not as easy as when playing against a typical TAG, they are much easier to read.

Lastly I firmly believe that if you cannot beat the lowest levels filled with lose passive players and the occasional maniac you cannot beat the the top levels. In the past 6 months I have played everything from .50/1 to 100/200, I think my POV is valid.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[skillzilla]

post the emails you and byron jacobs exchanged