20/180 totally boring QJo OOP

mornelth · #1 10-22-2006, 10:11 PM

I'm not paying attention, I've got too much other stuff going on. I'm like 10/115 here chipwise, btw.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t2330)
Hero (t4985)
BB (t3420)
UTG (t1505)
UTG+1 (t2018)
MP1 (t4355)
MP2 (t1402)
MP3 (t960)
CO (t2155)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, CO calls t50, Button calls t50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t200) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t200) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets t200, BB folds, CO folds, Button calls t200.

River: (t600) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t250

Edit: I need lessons in PASTING apparently...

FortunaMaximus · #2 10-22-2006, 10:12 PM

Looks like you did better the second time.

Otherwise, standard.

SuperUberBob · #3 10-22-2006, 10:12 PM

Same hand twice?

Bet more on river, otherwise as played.

betgo · #4 10-22-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Same hand twice?

Bet more on river, otherwise as played.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is a 3-flush on the river. I like OP's bet. In fact, I might check with the intention of checkraising or check/calling depending on my read.

FortunaMaximus · #5 10-22-2006, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Same hand twice?

Bet more on river, otherwise as played.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is a 3-flush on the river. I like OP's bet. In fact, I might check with the intention of checkraising or check/calling depending on my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stack disparities, what's the best possible line to take, considering that he's probably not betting unless he's got a flush and has been at the table long enough to respect OP's play enough to check-behind a medium-strength hand? Yeah, he'll bet other hands too, but not at the frequencies that'll make a c/r optimal. Perhaps a c/c.

I'm not sure this is applicable in a $22 so much though...

betgo · #6 10-22-2006, 11:27 PM

The problem is if you bet big on the river, what if villain raises. Your straight is not really a big hand. So bet small or check/call. If you check, you have the option also to check/fold or checkraise, depending on your read.

FortunaMaximus · #7 10-22-2006, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is if you bet big on the river, what if villain raises. Your straight is not really a big hand. So bet small or check/call. If you check, you have the option also to check/fold or checkraise, depending on your read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. It's pretty much got medium value here. But with a smallish bet, you at least have the option to set showdown at your price for slightly less than you would with a check-call. Villain would have to bet his weaker hands with enough frequency to make a slightly more expensive check-call correct, and your read on his tendencies to do so has to be accurate.

If he raises, you can be sure there's an increased probability you're not going to win the showdown.

So a small bet is better than a check-check, check-call, check-raise if you're setting the showdown price.

If your read on him is pretty accurate, and he will bet the river with a wider range of hands, including hands you are ahead of, check to his bigger river bet, then decide whether to call or raise.

Nez477 · #8 10-23-2006, 12:20 AM

Hey Mornelth,

Check-calling seems like a very easy option, and probably the one we could take. What hands are going to call your bet that we beat? I mean, maybe sometimes 2-pair calls for the heck of it, but often we are either splitting and getting pressure from a raise (which we don't want) or are losing to the flush.

It kind of feels like the easy semi-weak play to check-call here, but against a random 'bad' player at the 20/180's, I'm inclined to just check-call here. Against opponents who could think a little more and get tricky, then maybe leading has value. But not here.

Brad

mornelth · #9 10-23-2006, 01:08 AM

To be honest, I didn't look what the villain called me with, but he did call and he did lose...

I think it's a good value bet in this spot.

Nez477 · #10 10-23-2006, 10:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
To be honest, I didn't look what the villain called me with, but he did call and he did lose...

I think it's a good value bet in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because this guy happened to call? Any thinking player is going to fold almost 100% of the hands that you beat here, maybe call for a split, and otherwise has you killed.

I mean, the flush draw, I suppose is semi-unlikely based on his non-action on the flop, but I don't even know how clear of a sign that is either. Check-calling has additonal value because you can snap off a bluff on a scary board.

I don't think this is the time for a value bet.

Brad