OK, you want to see my hand... should I return the favor?

[Grizwold]

I always have mixed feelings about this luxury. And when players that didn't even see the flop exercise this right, it gets to me even more. I see players out of the action say IWTSTH for many different reasons; among the most popular are when a new player enters the table and raises preflop, or when a player shows any aggresion for that matter. Another popular reason I see is players who put someone on a hand, and then after it's over they ask to see it and verify the obvious holding of the mucker. It is like the player just wants to verify they are a genious poker player. You may imagine there is a particular incident which happened to me to bring up this old topic, but I am not so much concerned with players' rights to use this rule. Rather how to respond. Let me be a little more specific and tell what happened to me today.

I was in the BB w/ 98o in a 2/4 LHE game. Several callers preflop as usual and I check. Flop comes K88 and I check-raise the field. The expert hand reader is out of the hand by this point. Turn comes blank and I bet in to I don't remember how many opponents. River is another K and I'm nearly certain I am dead but I check/call anyway cause of a big pot and still a pretty strong hand. Expert hand reader calls the cards, pointing his finger at the river better he says "king, and you have an eight" talking about me. So of course the river better turns over a king and I muck but the guy that was never in the hand must reassure himself he is good enough to keep adding on to his stack. So the dealer kills my 98o and turns it over. Fine.

Should I return the favor? That is, should I use the IWTSTH rule while not in a hand against that same player? There is usually several opportunities to do so, and I know a lot of time that will rattle a player, kinda like myself. I mean, I really don't care much, it was pretty obvious what I had anyway, but should I take this as an opportunity to get back at him? What is most +EV? Make the player angry and possibly tilt by using the same methods on him? Or let him think he is such a great player, and that will make him lose more money anyway? BTW, I didn't retaliate in any way against this player. I didn't say anything or use that rule against him the rest of the night. But I know for certain players do not like a hand they muck to be turned up, and this is a sort of invitation to do so. What's the best line here? lol Or some other ideas or thoughts when someone uses IWTSTH against you (particularly when the player was not in the hand)?

[Man of Means]

$2/4 limit? In these games I'd always show my hand on the end anyway in the spirit of ostensibly "keeping it friendly" and encouraging others to do so.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
$2/4 limit? In these games I'd always show my hand on the end anyway in the spirit of ostensibly "keeping it friendly" and encouraging others to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this in 4/8 and 5/10 a lot of the time too. I want them to like me and think omg he's showing his hand, must be a n00b. Especially when I have the best hand b/c I want fold equity.

[pfapfap]

Eh, trying to get someone back at his own game will affect you more than it does him. Just thinking about it already has. Let it go. Smile and move on.

[2461Badugi]

+EV isn't everything. Remain above their level or be doomed to it.

[daveT]

yeah, at 2/4, you could play your hands face up and beat them.

Was playing Stud for the first time today, and someone asked if they could see my hand if he paid me, I told the dealer to show them, and told my villian he could see it for free.

3 Aces comes by so seldomly, I doubt that my opponents are going to get a solid read on me.

BTW, I always show my Quads and Straigh Flushes in Hold'em.

And if someone really begs me, I will show, sometimes it's the nuts, sometimes it's nothing.

[Grizwold]

[ QUOTE ]
$2/4 limit? In these games I'd always show my hand on the end anyway in the spirit of ostensibly "keeping it friendly" and encouraging others to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this a lot too, especially when multi-way at showdown and I'm out of position, even when I suspect I likely do not have the best hand. Many players hold on to their cards for dear life and spend 15-20 seconds reading the 7-9 cards that are opened. I turn my hand up and announce my holding quickly to encourage others to do the same, pretty much to try to keep the game moving quickly. I wasn't one to do this every time I go to showdown (like the example I gave), but I agree 95% of the time the information does not affect my opponent and I will probably showdown a whole lot more when I have the chance.

[Grizwold]

[ QUOTE ]
+EV isn't everything. Remain above their level or be doomed to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was one very strong feeling I had at the table. "Don't sink to their level." I thought even if "returning the favor" may be more +EV for me, I'd rather remain a gentleman and not let other players actions change my attitude or play. Even though it appeared to change my attitude, I really forgot about it soon after.

[ZPinhead]

Anytime I get the IWTSTH from some goof that folded PF, I ask the requester, in a very serious tone, if he is accusing me of cheating (kind of like the old "are you calling me a liar?!?"). As I am normally friendly and easy going at the table, this comes across as very out of character and abrupt. Of course the response is always a sheepish "....well no, I just wanted to see what you had ...". Those that I have done this too have not asked to see my cards again.

[Jive Dadson]

My rule is simple:

1) If I am required to show the hand, I do, even without an IWTSTH.

2) If I am not required to show the hand, I don't.