What will it take??

[richie]

What will it take in this country (US) before people say enough is enough??
The average American works half the year to pay their taxes.
Both major parties want more money to run your life lol.
Bush has basically trashed the Constitution (Patriot Act, Military Comissions Act).
Cities are installing cameras, etc. to monitor "criminal behavior".
Smoking has become a near criminal act.
Let's not forget trans fats lol.

Welfare programs for EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY.

Oh, and the war in Iraq? What a travesty.

The BS war on drugs, the BS war on poverty, the BS war on persdonal freedoms!!

Oops, I almost forgot the war on immigration.

Don't people in this country realize that once the gov't. takes a freedom away that they will never give it back??

I am so irritated and frustrated--all the crap going on and all people seem to care about is whether or not they are affected.

Whether or not you exercise certain freedoms does not matter; they are still being taken away from you.

I'm upset about the online gaming bill, but that pales in comparison to all the other BS going on, mainly the Military Commission ACt and Patriot Act.

Where is all the outrage for these infringements on your rights as a US citizen??

I know I have left out alot of things, but what will it take for people to stand up and say "Enough is enough?"

[jstnrgrs]

I think we need to get about 1,000,000 people to agree to refuse to pay their income taxes regradless of what the government does to them. If we can get 1,000,000 people on board, I think the government will be brought down very quickly and non-violently.

We will start when we get to 1,000,000. I'm 1.

[whiskeytown]

welcome to 2003, Richie [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I've been silent mostly during the recent Republican decline of the last couple weeks - because I've already told you guys what goddamn liars they were 3 yrs ago - as did many, many of us - it takes virtually no effort to see both sides of a story if people will examine it and then make a decision based upon the facts presented -

for example - Bill O'Reilly says he wants to throw a hand grenade into the offices of Mediamatters.org

mediamatters.org takes what bill o'reilly says and breaks it down and his falsehoods and use documentation and his own words back against him -

hmmm...which one looks like a viable source of info - rabid attackdog or online documentation and the source clips of material of rabid attack dog refuting his earlier claims -

see - easy? - probably Mediamatters is a better source of info then bill o'reilly - a Lot of us learned this in 2003.

for those who aren't convinced yet - it would require a leap of acknowledgement on their part that they were wrong - but they can be presented with a free excuse - they can BLAME GWB! -

he lied to them about the motives and rationals for Iraq and they can say they were wrong and stop supporting him if they have the moral and personal growth to admit to a small degree they made a wrong choice. But some folks can never make that acknowledgement - in fact the 30% remaining faithful to the Republican minority about sum it up. They'll let him take away the freedoms of this country cause it's their people in power - if you want to see Republicans run like scary little [censored] - see how badly they start panicing when the laws used to detain unlawful enemy combatants are put in the hands of a non-Republican majority and see how secure they feel [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

the remaining 30% who remain with them will never make that admission - but I think they're mostly on the lower bell curve of intelligence and won't matter nearly as much after the midterms.

We're going to clean house, babee - 12 yrs of Republican stench to clean out - jeez- - we'll have to hold meetings on the lawn for a yr.

rb

[richie]

Look, I know you are a Democrat, and that's OK with me. I believe everyone should vote their conscience. But this is not a BS partisan issue. This concerns all Americans, not conservs. or libs. As long as you or anyone else sees this this as red or blue (lol) they can keep the populace divided.

As a result, the people will nver rise up to take back their country. You keep believing the Dems (or repubs) can fix things and you play right into the politicians' hands.
Turn off the news, radio talkshows, etc. and start thinking for yourself.

The people are supposed to run this country, not the BS politicians. As long as you see this as dems vs. repubs., you keep the machine rolling.

Read some history, the Constitution, etc. Take off the blinders and wake up.

Whiskey, I don't mean to sound harsh. But quit drinking the 2-party Kool-aid. Neither one of them has YOUR interests in mind.

[richie]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we need to get about 1,000,000 people to agree to refuse to pay their income taxes regradless of what the government does to them. If we can get 1,000,000 people on board, I think the government will be brought down very quickly and non-violently.

We will start when we get to 1,000,000. I'm 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I think we need a million people just to say no to ANYTHING the politicians are doing. Everyone needs to disregard their party affiliation and vote Liberatrian.

I know alot of people here are AC'ers and that's OK with me.
I am still reading and learning. But I know that any less gov't. intrusuion is a good thing, and we all all striving for the same goal--get these A##holes out of my life and quit screwing people over!!

These politicians are never going to stop until we stand up.
Unfortunately I do not see this rebellion happening in my lifetime (I am 47 BTW).

[John21]

[ QUOTE ]
What will it take in this country (US) before people say enough is enough??


[/ QUOTE ]

Probably for all the things you mentioned to actually effect the daily lives of most Americans, besides principle based moral outrage.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your grievances, just that they don't effect the lives of most people in this country. And until it effects the lives of 'most' people - most people won't do anything about it.

[John Feeney]

[ QUOTE ]
The people are supposed to run this country, not the BS politicians. As long as you see this as dems vs. repubs., you keep the machine rolling.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect whiskey is well aware of the problems with the Democrats and the system as it stands. But if we don't vote to get the repubs out of there ASAP -- and replacing them with dems is the only viable way of doing so at this time -- we'll soon be in a world war, will be teaching creationism in the public schools, and will have no environment left to destroy (long term, probably the most profound problem exacerbated by current repub policy).

Once we avert those things, I'm all for looking at fundamental changes to the current system. If we can do both simultaneously, that's even better. But I don't see any way around the necessity of voting Democrat in '06 and '08.

[whiskeytown]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, I know you are a Democrat, and that's OK with me. I believe everyone should vote their conscience. But this is not a BS partisan issue. This concerns all Americans, not conservs. or libs. As long as you or anyone else sees this this as red or blue (lol) they can keep the populace divided.

As a result, the people will nver rise up to take back their country. You keep believing the Dems (or repubs) can fix things and you play right into the politicians' hands.
Turn off the news, radio talkshows, etc. and start thinking for yourself.

The people are supposed to run this country, not the BS politicians. As long as you see this as dems vs. repubs., you keep the machine rolling.

Read some history, the Constitution, etc. Take off the blinders and wake up.

Whiskey, I don't mean to sound harsh. But quit drinking the 2-party Kool-aid. Neither one of them has YOUR interests in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

kind of a stupid reply but I'll bite - what the hell.

This country has worked more or less for 200 yrs on a two party system - the only time it's worked like dogshit is under the One party system the Repub's set up in 2000 -

while I'm sure you have instant access to ALL knowledge and don't need to do any research on any issues because you have it all in your head, I would like to look at things like history, past behavior, and tactics before I go depending totally upon myself for all knowledge -

statements like "Turn off the news, radio talkshows, etc. and start thinking for yourself." smack of republicanism - in fact - I'd argue exposing yourself to MORE viewpoints will give you a better picture of the whole thing, not fewer. But it'll require a bit more work then just bitching in a political forum -

rb

[richie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look, I know you are a Democrat, and that's OK with me. I believe everyone should vote their conscience. But this is not a BS partisan issue. This concerns all Americans, not conservs. or libs. As long as you or anyone else sees this this as red or blue (lol) they can keep the populace divided.

As a result, the people will nver rise up to take back their country. You keep believing the Dems (or repubs) can fix things and you play right into the politicians' hands.
Turn off the news, radio talkshows, etc. and start thinking for yourself.

The people are supposed to run this country, not the BS politicians. As long as you see this as dems vs. repubs., you keep the machine rolling.

Read some history, the Constitution, etc. Take off the blinders and wake up.

Whiskey, I don't mean to sound harsh. But quit drinking the 2-party Kool-aid. Neither one of them has YOUR interests in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

kind of a stupid reply but I'll bite - what the hell.

This country has worked more or less for 200 yrs on a two party system - the only time it's worked like dogshit is under the One party system the Repub's set up in 2000 -

while I'm sure you have instant access to ALL knowledge and don't need to do any research on any issues because you have it all in your head, I would like to look at things like history, past behavior, and tactics before I go depending totally upon myself for all knowledge -

statements like "Turn off the news, radio talkshows, etc. and start thinking for yourself." smack of republicanism - in fact - I'd argue exposing yourself to MORE viewpoints will give you a better picture of the whole thing, not fewer. But it'll require a bit more work then just bitching in a political forum -

rb

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, and my reply was stupid?? lol.

What part of my original post made you think I was DEFENDING the Republican Party?

Now if you are saying that voting for Dems is good so it might induce gridlock in the Gov't., fine.
But you are implying that the Dems will solve everything and the Repubs are evil and totally at fault for the leviathan machine we call the Federal gov't.

The libs are just as bad as the Republicans, pick your poison. They are both slowly destroying this country.

As I stated previously, this is not a partisan issue, this is an isue for all Americans. Believing that libs are any better thans the neocons is folly, IMO.

Just to be clear, I wasn't attacking YOU personally about talkshows, etc. fogging people's minds. I was referring to people in this country in general. Just shows the defensiveness of people when they believe someone is questioning their party loyalty. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
This country has worked more or less for 200 yrs on a two party system - the only time it's worked like dogshit is under the One party system the Repub's set up in 2000 -

[/ QUOTE ]
Define "worked".