I have trips, you muck, oops, I don't

[DesertCat]

5-150 game at Casino AZ today. River on a QQK8x board, player one (seven seat) bets, player two (two seat) calls. Player one says "queens with a nine" to player two. Player two mucks. Player one turns over his hand and shows J9o.

Player two is an older dealer and she can't see far enough to make out players one hand immediately. As dealer pushes him the pot he apologizes for mistakenly thinking he had a queen. The cards have been swept into the muck. Only then player two says, "you didn't have a queen"? A player says "he miscalled his hand". Floor is called.

What does floor rule? What should floor rule?

[Dave D]

The other player mucked their hand, it doesnt matter what you say (especially heads up, you can say what you want), cards speak. Player 1 wins the pot, player 2 shouldn't believe anyone, ever, in any situation in life.

[ybother]

Seeing as I have been To CAZ before, I would guess they told the loser (but probable winner) that his muck was irreversible - lesson learned, yada yada yada

Seat one should be banished to vee quiva where he belongs

[ScottHoward]

[ QUOTE ]
The other player mucked their hand, it doesnt matter what you say (especially heads up, you can say what you want), cards speak. Player 1 wins the pot, player 2 shouldn't believe anyone, ever, in any situation in life.

[/ QUOTE ]
im under the impression the ruling at borg would be the mucked hand wins

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
The other player mucked their hand, it doesnt matter what you say (especially heads up, you can say what you want), cards speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Player one says "queens with a nine" to player two. Player two mucks. Player one turns over his hand and shows J9o.

[/ QUOTE ]

No they can not say anything they want when declairing your hand. Table banter HU, yes, just about anything short of threats and slurs are fair game. But when you are declairing your hand, you need to be honest. Anything else is an angle and should result in your butt being banned from the room.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
The other player mucked their hand, it doesnt matter what you say (especially heads up, you can say what you want), cards speak. Player 1 wins the pot, player 2 shouldn't believe anyone, ever, in any situation in life.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to learn the rule:

From Robert's Rules of Poker and this is standard:
[ QUOTE ]
2. cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)

[/ QUOTE ]

[Percula]

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What does floor rule? What should floor rule?

[/ QUOTE ]

In all the hours I have spent there this has never came up when I was there. So I realy do not know if CA has a specific rule on the books about misdeclairation of a hand at showdown.

If there is a rule on the book, the player should get the boot. Since the other player never tabled her hand and it is now lost in the wash, the only live hand is the angle shooter's hand will have to be awarded pot, racked up, cashed out and pushed out the door after security gets their information on him.

BTW who was the angle shooter?

[Hey_Porter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The other player mucked their hand, it doesnt matter what you say (especially heads up, you can say what you want), cards speak. Player 1 wins the pot, player 2 shouldn't believe anyone, ever, in any situation in life.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to learn the rule:

From Robert's Rules of Poker and this is standard:
[ QUOTE ]
2. cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't sound deliberate, although in most cases it'll be hard to prove either way.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

This doesn't sound deliberate, although in most cases it'll be hard to prove either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I probably wouldn't be giving them the benefit of the doubt unless the player is a complete bafoon. Most people know what they have when they turn them over.

[soah]

Intent is irrelevent here because the dude had jack high, and the floor can reasonably assume that the player calling a bet on the river can beat jack high.