KK - Check up

MarkD · #1 10-11-2006, 07:09 PM

This is really meant as a check up - is my betting correct in these hands with KK?

I'm guessing KK should be my second most profitable hand, but after 20,674 hands of NL I'm losing (0.70) bb/hand (89 total hands of KK).

These are against different villians.

Hand 1:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($200)
UTG+1 ($200)
MP1 ($216.90)
MP2 ($141.90)
CO ($210.10)
Hero ($190.95)
SB ($134.64)
BB ($75.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $2. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero raises to $30, 2 folds, UTG calls $20.

Flop: ($65) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $55, UTG calls $170 (All-In), Hero calls $105.95 (All-In).

Turn: ($395.95) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($395.95) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $395.95

Results in white below: 
UTG has Ad As (one pair, aces).
Hero has Kc Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $395.95. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($446.40)
UTG ($223.55)
MP ($150)
Hero ($197.50)
SB ($224.22)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $2. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG raises to $10, MP (poster) calls $8, Hero raises to $40, 2 folds, UTG folds, MP calls $30.

Flop: ($93) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $45, MP calls $45.

Turn: ($183) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $85, MP calls $65 (All-In).

River: ($333) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $333

Results in white below: 
MP has 9d 9h (four of a kind, nines).
Hero has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: MP wins $313. Hero wins $20. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Hand 3:
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($186)
UTG ($200.35)
MP ($204.80)
CO ($123.90)
Hero ($203.30)
SB ($318.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, CO calls $2, Hero raises to $9, 2 folds, CO calls $7.

Flop: ($21) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $15, CO calls $15.

Turn: ($51) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($51) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $51

Results in white below: 
CO has Qc Ad (two pair, aces and nines).
Hero has Ks Kc (two pair, kings and nines).
Outcome: CO wins $51.

Bill Smith · #2 10-11-2006, 07:50 PM

Do you seriously have no reads on these?

Hand 1: Preflop and flop are fine, whether to call is read dependent. You're getting 2.65:1 to call, but I don't think a decent player pushes here with anything but AA/KK on such a safe board (QQ might push, but more likely than not would call and let you hang yourself). Against a donk, easy call.

Hand 2: Bet sizing was perfect, BBV. If he had QQ-TT with a club you'd have never posted it.

Hand 3: I don't see how you could have played this differently.

olof86 · #3 10-11-2006, 08:06 PM

Nothing wrong really, if u dont got any reads that is.

Just ul.

Novles · #4 10-11-2006, 08:17 PM

Hand 1: A read would be nice. A 5x raise/call from UTG. I really don't see what you are beating here.

Hand 2: Push the flop. He's only got a psb left.

Hand 3: looks fine.

MarkD · #5 10-11-2006, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you seriously have no reads on these?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: villian was like 27/5 after a <100 hand sample. Is that a read? I didn't trust it all that much, but I had not seen him raise yet and had not seen him get out of line yet.

This hand felt like sh.t.

Hand 2: This is the only had I've ever played with villian.

Hand 3: I can't remember this guy's numbers but I thought of him as loose and weak..

[/ QUOTE ]

MarkD · #6 10-11-2006, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: A read would be nice. A 5x raise/call from UTG. I really don't see what you are beating here.

Hand 2: Push the flop. He's only got a psb left.

Hand 3: looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: So you fold the flop?

Hand 2: I wanted to put him on the installment plan with his smallish stack.

catalyst · #7 10-11-2006, 09:24 PM

Hand 1 is the only hand you can get away from. Can't see villain doing this with any hand you beat except, maaaybe an AQS. But, his range here is heavily weighted to AA/QQ (QQ the more likely IMO). Against a loose opponent I make this call frequently for these odds. Against a TAG it should be a standard laydown. Hands 2 and 3 are BBV.

Novles · #8 10-12-2006, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: A read would be nice. A 5x raise/call from UTG. I really don't see what you are beating here.

Hand 2: Push the flop. He's only got a psb left.

Hand 3: looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: So you fold the flop?

Hand 2: I wanted to put him on the installment plan with his smallish stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: Not saying I fold, but wish I could more often. A 5x raise/call utg is most always JJ+.

Hand 2: Yeah, I can see the installment plan here.

KingGordy · #9 10-12-2006, 02:03 AM

All these hands are reasonablly well played/standard. Here are some minor nitpicks I have:

Hand 1: You may want to consider checking behind on the flop. After he calls your preflop 3-bet his range is probably 88+, or AK. By betting you'll make 99-JJ and AK fold, while getting stacked by aces and sets. You could also consider folding to the check raise, although after you've put have your stack in you'd have to have a really good read. He could be donking it up with AQ, or KQ.

Hand 3 sometimes check the flop, but betting is absolutely fine.