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#1
10-09-2006, 11:19 AM
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Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
Hello all, I'm new here so please be patient. I'm appr. 15/4.5/2. I play quite tight although I think I should be tighter. I'm maybe too passive, but that's because my opponents often play no-fold'em hold'em and my post-flop play is awful. After flop I often find myself completely lost.
So I'm posting one AKo hand now. I'm especially interested about the play on the flop, but any comments about other streets are wellcome also. No reads on the opponent. Poker Room skin Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $0.50/$1 8 players Converter Hero is holding: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (I don't know why it didn't show this automatically) Pre-flop: (8 players) 5 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls. Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls. Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.25BB, 2 players) BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls. River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.25BB, 2 players) BB checks, Hero checks. Results: Final pot: 6.25BB Ok, that's it. I'll try to explain my thinking process: Pre-flop: -My thoughts:"AK, I hope I can steal the blinds and if I get callers hope I get good flop." Flop: -My thoughts:"Yep, missed it. How dare he bet into ME, the pre-flop raiser. How can they always know when I don't have [censored], RAISE!" [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] -Ok, that was only half serious, but that's how I know I'm mildly tilting. Anyway, I was also thinking that he might be bluffing if he thinks I have only high cards or pair smaller than queen and didn't hit that queen. Most probably he has small pair or even top pair. By raising I was trying to represent high pair and was hoping he would release middle pair on turn. Other options in my mind were: -Fold -Call and fold on turn if I don't get any help These both options seem so weak-tight that I took another path. Was I way off? Many microlimit players will go to showdown with their puny pair so is this -ev? Turn: -Standard 2nd barrel since I raised the flop. I could also take free card, but what the hell you only live once. And as I mentioned, I was hoping that he would fold. River: -My thoughts:"Well, he is not going to fold so why bother, CHECK." So where did I go wrong or did I? I just can't play post-flop to save my life so any advise would be appreciated. Hope you had patience to read this all. Oh yes, and last question: What if there wasn't a possible flush draw on flop. How would that change things? 
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#3
10-09-2006, 11:43 AM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
On the flop, you have around 5 outs (1.5 for the BDFD, 3 for the overcards, 0.5 for the weak BDSD). After the BB donk bets, the pot has 5.5 small bets in it. You're almost certainly behind and don't have the outs to continue. Fold.
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#4
10-09-2006, 11:50 AM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
I take the free card on the turn and fold the river if he bets into you after you check the turn.
I think that most of the time the flop donk is a villain hitting a pair who is testing you out. His call of your raise on the flop means he might actually belive you have AQ, KK or AA. I just dont think that after a flop donk, that a typical weak player is going to fold a top or middle pair when you get the turn. check the turn IMHO.
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#5
10-09-2006, 12:03 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
If villain is rather passive (or unknown ...) raising the flop is ok imo but only if you take the freecard on the turn.
[ QUOTE ] Most probably he has small pair or even top pair. By raising I was trying to represent high pair and was hoping he would release middle pair on turn. [/ QUOTE ] Don't hope too much, a pair will virtually always see the showdown in a hu situation at 0.5/1$. Therefore I prefer taking the fc on the turn and c/f the river ui.
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#6
10-09-2006, 12:11 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, you have around 5 outs (1.5 for the BDFD, 3 for the overcards, 0.5 for the weak BDSD). After the BB donk bets, the pot has 5.5 small bets in it. You're almost certainly behind and don't have the outs to continue. Fold. [/ QUOTE ] You aren't necessarily behind on the flop. This looks like a blind steal situation to villain. Your openraising range on the button is wide and the Q on the flop is a scare card to many of your possible holdings. Therefore villain could be testing you here with many hands and donking a fd isn't really a bad play since he might steal the pot from you at low cost. Giving up to a lone donkbet is far too tight. You should at least call with two overs + backdoor draws otherwise you'll get pushed around in stealing situations.
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#7
10-09-2006, 12:31 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
[ QUOTE ]
Hello all, I'm new here so please be patient. I'm appr. 15/4.5/2. I play quite tight although I think I should be tighter. I'm maybe too passive [/ QUOTE ] Imo you're definitely too tight preflop and way too passive preflop. Your pfr should be at least half of your vpip. About the hand: The raise on the flop is read dependent. If he is somewhat aggressive and capable of betting a flush draw or trying a re-steal it's OK. If he is rather passive I tend to just call with my overs and BDFD. Take the free card on the turn, fold the river UI if he bets. If he is pretty aggro, then you might bet the turn in order to (1) prevent a free card (2) prevent a bluff on the river in case you're ahead.
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#8
10-09-2006, 12:48 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
Yes, this is exactly what I'm looking for. You guys have already improved my game. I know that these plays are very much case sensitive, but it's interesting see what better players think.
Ampelmann, I play preflop passively mostly because I'm so insecure about my postflop play. Other thing is that I just hate playing oop and that's why I don't raise much from EP or even MP. I see players with PFR over 10 and even close to 20 and I just can't understand how someone can play like that. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Maybe some day I'll have the confidence...
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#9
10-09-2006, 12:55 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
Find a pre-flop chart and use it. You are too tight and too passive pre-flop, you get to make pre-flop mistakes every hand so you should start fixing it now.
Without reads on villain the flop raise is spew. You barely have odds to call and try and improve on the turn. Give the opportunity for a free card on the turn you should have taken it and c/f the river ui. With your stats there are only a few hands you are raising with which makes it easy to play against you.
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#10
10-09-2006, 01:16 PM
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Re: Another AKo, would you have done it differently?
Good to see another Finn in here :-)
The hand - without any reads i might actually let it go on the flop. But i suck in these situations anyhow. Too many bad memories, i guess. Talking about stats, i use SSHE pf chart (the tighter one), and my vpip is about 12-13 :/ Dunno whatīs up with that. I definately need to fix it. I just canīt seem to find situations where it would be right to call. I guess i need to limp more with Arag suited and raise hands instead of folding to get it heads up, or something.
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