1/2 JTs multiway

henkeee · #1 10-07-2006, 09:29 AM

small sample sizes, no reads

BB 25/14/0.8 36 hands (main villain)
UTG+2 71/2
MP1 56/21
MP2 18/8

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10.5SB, 5 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.25BB, 4 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero ?

1. What about preflop?
2. Raising the flop doesn't do much, what do we do on the turn?

Sushiglutton · #2 10-07-2006, 09:34 AM

Someone that passive betting into so many people, including a pf raiser is really scary. I agree with just calling the flop. Turn is really close to a fold.

Dangeresque · #3 10-07-2006, 09:36 AM

Hmm... I don't think your kicker's high enough to raise for value, and yet BB hasn't shown enough power to have an over pair... you're getting 10-1 that you're good. Call. He could be betting QT KT or a middle pair, like 88, 99, etc.

Ampelmann · #4 10-07-2006, 09:39 AM

Preflop raise is OK for me, although I typically want more players in before I raise this.

On both flop and turn I don't want to raise. Call and hope to get a showdown for one more BB.

henkeee · #5 10-07-2006, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone that passive betting into so many people, including a pf raiser is really scary. I agree with just calling the flop. Turn is really close to a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we should assume that he is passive. It's a small sample size and I actually had even fewer hands on him at the moment.

Darkplate · #6 10-07-2006, 10:15 AM

My grunch,

TJs is a drawing hand for me. So I'd prefer about 3 limpers in if I'm going to raise that. Not a terrible move really, you just missed the flop this time I think.

I'd hate it, but I would call river and fold the River UI without better notes on BB villian and what conditions he donks.

Rev. Good Will · #7 10-07-2006, 11:25 AM

I'm probably calling here, and the river too even if I'm overcalling (assuming it's still 1 bet to me of course).

BB is the aggressor here, and therefore (assuming that he's sane) would have a wider range of hands to bet with that you beat, such as T9/T8/99/88, or if he's on the aggressive side, A7/(maybe)K7

Bruce D · #8 10-07-2006, 12:09 PM

I call the preflop.

As villian is in BB and with so many overcallers, I think we have as many as 4 outs on the flop, but could also be drawing dead.

Flop action is standard.

I don't think we are ahead enough given the action to call a turn bet. BB could have a wide range of holdings. Any combination of 2 pair from the original bettor, a couple ways for 3 of a kind, coupled with Tx with x>J from the original bettor and the overcallers puts us in a precarious position. Villian could have an unlikely overpair as well.

I fold this turn and find a better spot to fight.

Aaron W. · #9 10-07-2006, 12:31 PM

Don't fold. I can see arguments for just calling and some arguments for raising, but don't fold.

Bruce D · #10 10-07-2006, 12:59 PM

I think this is close Aaron. I advocated a fold, and think its close. I know its has been said don't fold when it's close, but if we have 0-4 outs, we have implied odds to call when we have 4 outs only. If we have 3 or less, we aren't making the bets we lose if we call when we make our hand. I don't see us being ahead here very often enough to carry on with a call.

The over callers or the bettor could easily have Q-AT. That gives 18 hands that are reasonable holdings that have us beat not including the random hands that the BB could have that have us drawing slim.

Do you think perhaps BB has 2 pair often enough for the counterfeit on the river? I hadn't thought about it initially.

edit: That being said, how often will bb call a raise with a hand that brings 2 pair on the flop or turn?

More and more I think we are drawing to 3 outs on average with this board and this action.