The Jamie Gold "top top" Hand

[cbloom]

I know this has been gone over, but I was watching the rerun and noticed a ton of strange things about this hand.

Jamie is dealt As Jc and raises

"Lee Kort" has Qd Jh and calls

1. At this point, Norman Chad says that Kort often plays at the Commerce like Jamie. - anyone know if they play together and/or knew each other before?

Flop is 4d Jd 7d

2. As soon as the flop comes out, Jamie looks at Lee and shoots him these big eyes and shakes his head a lot. I know Jamie was constantly giving off tells and fake tells, but this is different than his usual routine. He fidgets and keeps sending big looks at Lee.

Lee is first to act and announces he's all in.

Jamie says "Lee, c'mon man, I got top top" ; his voice sounds pleading. Lee says "me too" robotically. Jamie seems distressed and says "alright I call". They turn over cards and Lee says "alright, I need a diamond". Jamie is surprised (understandly) and says "oh, you said top top, I wouldna called you, I said top top, I would.. I'm...", Lee says "sorry", Jamie puts his hands on his head, very distressed and says "I'm sorry" many times.

Lee is knocked out and Jamie seems more upset about it than Lee. (I don't read anything into this, Jamie seemed very emtional throughout).


Jamie's dialogue and body language seem to strongly indicate he didn't want to knock out Lee.

[Kevmath]

Kort, Gold, Siddarth Jain, and Kevin Aaronson allegedly played in the same games together at Commerce, according to John Vorhaus' WSOP blog for Ultimate Bet.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
Lee is knocked out and Jamie seems more upset about it than Lee.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Seems" being the operative term.

If you have it on tape, go back and watch how Jamie does a little celebration when the river is a blank.

Dude was crying croc tears for his "buddy."

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lee is knocked out and Jamie seems more upset about it than Lee.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Seems" being the operative term.

If you have it on tape, go back and watch how Jamie does a little celebration when the river is a blank.

Dude was crying croc tears for his "buddy."

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, yeah, I mentioned in the post that I didn't think that part was fishy at all, that was just standard "Jamie". I was trying to be thorough and post everything about the situation including things I didn't think were actually fishy. WTG though, good job with the selective quoting.

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
Jamie's dialogue and body language seem to strongly indicate he didn't want to knock out Lee.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's fairly apparent they had some kind of soft-playing agreement with each other.

When Jamie open-raised from the button Lee looked somehwat perturbed. I think his all-in move on the flop (he wasn't paying attention to Jamie's obvious signals) was in part retaliation at Jamie for trying to steal his blind. I imagine the agreement was along the lines of not bluffing one another, and generally staying out of each other's way. Just so happened Jamie had a legitimate button-raising hand, Lee had a solid defending hand, and they both flopped big.

After the money went in, it's every man for himself. But yes, I think he did genuinely feel bad about eliminating his friend. But not too bad. I would have liked to see what Jamie would have done if Lee answered something besides "me too" when Jamie said he had top-top.

I can't tell from your post what your point is or which side you're on. We've all pretty much concluded there was minor but significant collusion at work. Nobody cares too much, though.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell from your post what your point is or which side you're on. We've all pretty much concluded there was minor but significant collusion at work.

[/ QUOTE ]

his point is that this wasn't "minor" collusion

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
his point is that this wasn't "minor" collusion

[/ QUOTE ]

I also called it "significant", and bemoaned the fact that nobody with authority really seems to care about the issue, so don't act as if I'm looking the other way.

The OP gave an accurate recap of the hand, but provided nothing new and, if anything, seemed more sympathetic towards Gold than most here have been. I haven't heard anybody claim there isn't something very suspicious about his behavior. And many here cried bulls**t the moment the hand was aired.

But if Jamie really wanted to keep that guy around, why would he open-raise from the button vs. the guy's big blind? And if he wanted to chip-dump to him, why wouldn't he have folded to his flop bet (without worrying about whether it was a chop)? As I said, it was probably a soft-play agreement, which is still very very wrong, but not as bad as others forms of collusion.

[Ignignokt]

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WTG though, good job with the selective quoting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good job with the combativeness.

Edit: plus, you're FOS. Your OP didn't mention his celebration at all.

[alphatmw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
his point is that this wasn't "minor" collusion

[/ QUOTE ] And if he wanted to chip-dump to him, why wouldn't he have folded to his flop bet (without worrying about whether it was a chop)?

[/ QUOTE ] durrr, cameras?

[legend42]

[ QUOTE ]
durrr, cameras?

[/ QUOTE ]

durrr, you think the cameras would have even shown that hand if there wasn't a bustout?