Thoughts: Somewhat of a Response to Stacking_Kids

[tdomeski]

I started having some of these thoughts before the bill to end the world was passed and before I read Stacking_Kids' post on the ungratefullness of young poker players. However, now I sort of feel like sharing my thoughts on all of this (if anyone really cares). This is all from the perspective of me, a 20 year old college kid who has benefited greatly from online poker and really never had a financial responsibility before it (i.e. I've never HAD to have a real job and make minimum wage serving hamburgers).

On Monday when Party Poker released the statement stating that they were pulling out of the U.S. market I become very distraught. I think this is very bad for online poker and could (in a probable however worse case scenario) lead to the end of online poker for many. Right after hearing the news I told one of my non poker player friends about this. He said "Hey what does it matter it's not like you were going to play poker forever." I responded, "But it's sort of like getting laid off from a really great job...I mean my bottom line is really going to suffer because of this!" To which he responded "Hey life goes on, people get laid off all the time...you are just going to have be like a normal person and get a regular job."

[censored]. If it were only that easy. See the thing I've noticed is that many people have the perception that us younger "baller" poker players who pull in in excess of $300/hr playing a "simple" game don't know the value of a dollar b/c we never ever worked to earn a dollar. This is partly true...we certainly don't know the true value of a dollar in the same way that say our grandparents might...but we do know what it takes to make bank. We do understand nothing is given to you and that there was a time at some point in our poker maturation where our expectation was probably negative. I would say most people invested large sums of money (adjusting oppurtunity cost into dollars) to become really good at poker. It just so happens that because of certain players dedication and hard work (literally putting in 60 hrs a week) they were able to go from having a negative expectation to having an extremely positive expectation in merely a matter of months. I think the thing that gets most of my peers outside of the poker world is the fact that I became seemingly "rich" overnight. They did not see the work, they did not see the time. Online poker was (and hopefully still is) a business where hard work and dedication can pay off a lot quicker than other ventures. With this bill passing and the sky falling on online poker (we are yet to know if this is truly the case) it's almost like everything I did to get where I'm at is all for nothing.

I know, I know; a lot of you will be like "Hey man how can it be for nothing when you got a plasma on the wall and a nice car and more cash in the bank than any 20 yr old could possibly want" (btw I'm not nearly as good/well off as most posters in this forum). Well this feeling of disallusionment that a lot of us feel right now is because what made us excel in poker was the dream to become better, the constant setting of goals no matter how far fetched they seemed. Every poker player has a vision of their future in poker and I would almost guarantee that that vision doesn't involve them playing at the current level they currently play at (at least for the group of younger players with no family financial obligations). It's like "wow got really far but this is it...this sucks I want to do so much more but now I cant"...this is the feeling I think a lot of us have. We aren't checking our bank statements and thinking "wow 2 yrs ago I never thought this would be possible now I got this much amount of money I'll just move onto something else and become great in that"...if at any point in our poker growth we had this sort of complacent attitude we wouldn't be where we are now (however maybe this sort of attitude at this point is what is needed...i don't know).

Another thing that has been getting to me recently is that fact that people want to make us feel guilty for being world class at something. Even in Stacking_Kids' post (whether he meant to come off like this or not idk) he gave the impression that we are like winners of a lottery...that we got lucky...that we should all be oh so fortunate for our lucky break to make it in poker and feel remorse for those who just couldn't hack it and lose money they may or may not need to live and suppport their family. I'm so sick of it...and it mainly comes from people outside the realm of online poker. I have many friends who worked all summer...some even worked 2 jobs. I would inquire as to how much they earned and it was relatively very little (maybe 5k for a whole summer if they were lucky). Sure enough after my inquiry someone would always have something to say about how "hey man we can't all be as fortunate as you and sit at a computer and print out money!" They couldn't be more wrong. First off I think most people I associate with (20 something year old college students at a decent university) can find a way to make more money playing online poker than working a normal job. Now granted (as some people mentioned in that other thread) not everyone can become a world class poker player as clearly there are some natural abilities that you really do need, but you can certainly figure out a way to make $15-20/hr. YOU JUST CHOOSE NOT TO LEARN. Simple as that. Second, it's not just by chance that we all happened to stumble into a game and got really good at it and it just happens to keep score in terms of dollars and cents. For a lot of us, this was our motiviation to get better. And quite frankly, there is nothing wrong with that. We saw an opportunity to have one less thing to worry about and we decided that putting in the hours it takes to become a winner was worth it. None of us owe anyone anything...sure I look at my friends and wish they played poker and were successful...hell I even try to back them and teach them a lot of the time. But the fact is if you aren't willing to put in the work and put in the effort you aren't going to win money.

I don't know where all this is going but I think I'll just wrap it up...I walk into my living room and look at a really nice TV that a 20 yr old college student probably shouldn't have. When I look at that TV I don't think to myself "wow, I'm soooooooooo lucky to have that...I'm sooooooooo glad idiots stuffed my pockets with money for the past 2 years"...I look at that TV and think about the 10+ books I read when I started out...I look at that TV and think about the hours of time I've spent on 2+2...I look at that TV and think about the hours of discussion I've had with great players about amazing complicating hands...I look at that TV and think about waking up one day 2 yrs ago after going bust for the first time in my life...I look at that TV and think about being so frustrated for 3 weeks straight during a 20 buy in downswing...I look at that TV and think about playing bruiser HU 30 months ago at $3/6 NL and not having a fckin clue what was going on and not sure how I could possibly learn from this and then waking up a year later realizing that everything was starting to click b/c of that match...I look at that TV and feel a sense of pride for finally being really really good at something...I look at that TV and, quite frankly, feel like I fckin deserve it. I used to look at that TV and feel like it was merely 1 stop along the way...now I look at that TV and fear that it's the end. I think this is the point I'm getting at. We worked hard. We struggled. We earned it. Now it seems like it's all being taken away for no reason. [censored] most of are actually pretty grateful and have a real perception for the world around us...but it still sucks and to assume we should happily exit this lifestyle is pretty mind boggling.

tdomeski

[Triumph36]

This is a great post.

Most people around me are taking the attitude of 'good, you can get a real job now' - well, [censored], I wanted to get a real job on my own terms. I was just about to start making huge money - about to cross the $100K barrier for the year. Now I have to count every dollar I spend because I don't know what the future holds.

[LearnedfromTV]

This is a very good post. I didn't object to what Stacking Kids said either, even as someone who has put a lot of effort into poker without making the sick amounts that some have made.

I think there is a place for a balanced attitude from anyone who is very successful in an endeavor that requires a lot of effort. Not just poker playing college kids, but a doctor, lawyer, pro athlete, CEO, and so on, who I would have the most respect for is one who says both:

- I worked hard to get here
- I was fortunate to get breaks along the way (natural talent, being in the right place at the right time, running hot at the right time, having a key conversation about success with someone at the right time, etc.)

These things aren't mutually exclusive.

[Ansky]

yes.

[jrbick]

Truth. POTY imo.

[gakn29]

I totally agree with this post. I get a lot of flack myself from friends because I'll say things like "I didnt lose too much today only around $2000". They just dont get that to put myself in a postition to make comments like that and be able to afford all the toys and clothes (kind of becoming an addiction) I had to put in years of hard work. I would also go so far as to say that I work harder at my craft than 90% of all the people I know going to school. They dont seem to care and are just going through the motions on the assumption that they will be given a good job at the end of it??? Get serious! There are only so many $50,000 a year jobs out there and most people just wont get one on the merits of their schooling alone.

[DonButtons]

Nice post.

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
Right after hearing the news I told one of my non poker player friends about this. He said "Hey what does it matter it's not like you were going to play poker forever." I responded, "But it's sort of like getting laid off from a really great job...I mean my bottom line is really going to suffer because of this!" To which he responded "Hey life goes on, people get laid off all the time...you are just going to have be like a normal person and get a regular job."

[/ QUOTE ]

this is what pisses me off the most and i hear all the time. i'm not normal because i've acquired a skill through tons of hard work and now i'm using it to my advantage?? the bottom line is people who aren't the least bit involved just make assumptions and of course the biggest one, just see it as gambling and random luck and such. great post, i wish all the people saying things like the things in the quote could read this and maybe understand why we feel how we do about the legislation.

[KRANTZ]

[ QUOTE ]
yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ahnuld]

1 thoudand pecrcent agree with everything you said. I wish I could show this post to everyone who has said now youll have to get a real job, or thought I was pissed for nothing this week.