Passive Angleshoot?

Atlanta Andrew · #1 10-02-2006, 05:00 PM

1/2 NL Home Game

I have an overpair heads-up on the river. I make a pot-sized bet of $50. My opponent check-raises to $70 ($20 raise), and I want to vomit because I know my hand is almost certainly not good now, but I have to call.

The illegal raise is something that we have previously allowed in this game. Several players do it, but I have never spoken up about the legal raising amounts because the players (older businessmen) would probably view me as an obnoxious nit trying to make their home game all serious.

Back to the hand...as I am about to put in my $20 to call, another player not in the hand, who was at our game for the first time, announces that my opponent's raise is not a legal amount. I do not say anything. My opponent gets kind of pissed and takes back his $20 raise. We flip up our cards to see who won.

Did I do anything wrong?

-Andrew

KingGeorgeC · #2 10-02-2006, 07:25 PM

Personally, I would have said, "Either make it $100 or just call the $50" Only because it's a friendly home game.

Lottery Larry · #3 10-02-2006, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 NL Home Game

I have an overpair heads-up on the river. I make a pot-sized bet of $50. My opponent check-raises to $70 ($20 raise), and I want to vomit because I know my hand is almost certainly not good now, but I have to call.

The illegal raise is something that we have previously allowed in this game. Several players do it, but I have never spoken up about the legal raising amounts because the players (older businessmen) would probably view me as an obnoxious nit trying to make their home game all serious.

Back to the hand...as I am about to put in my $20 to call, another player not in the hand, who was at our game for the first time, announces that my opponent's raise is not a legal amount. I do not say anything. My opponent gets kind of pissed and takes back his $20 raise. We flip up our cards to see who won.

Did I do anything wrong?

-Andrew

[/ QUOTE ]

what do you THINK you did wrong?

RevAgain · #4 10-02-2006, 07:45 PM

He shouldn't be allowed to take back his raise, he should be forced to make a minimum raise if you're going to play by the rules. Don't really see that you did anything wrong anyhow.

PantsOnFire · #5 10-02-2006, 11:42 PM

The only thing you did wrong was to allow the game to go on with improper raising. It would have been better to sort this out in between deals because it could come up as it did in the middle of your hand which is a bad time for an unclear rule to rear it's ugly head.

I don't think you did angle shooting or did anything unethical. But if you are seasoned poker player you should do some captaining before play starts otherwise trouble will follow.

I understand your concern with seeming like a nit but there are ways to do this dimplomatically. Make everyone see that a solid set of rules benefits everybody. The only time this is not received well is if somebody is truly trying to angle shoot.

Atlanta Andrew · #6 10-03-2006, 08:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what do you THINK you did wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

My main concern was wondering if I should have spoke up about allowing the illegal raise since 1) it had previously been allowed in our game 2) the new player (the enforcer) did not know this 3) disallowing the raise benefitted me.

Instead, I kept quiet and let my opponent make the decision. I hope that I did not do anything wrong, but I am not sure, which is why I asked here.

-Andrew

Atlanta Andrew · #7 10-03-2006, 08:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing you did wrong was to allow the game to go on with improper raising. It would have been better to sort this out in between deals because it could come up as it did in the middle of your hand which is a bad time for an unclear rule to rear it's ugly head.

I don't think you did angle shooting or did anything unethical. But if you are seasoned poker player you should do some captaining before play starts otherwise trouble will follow.

I understand your concern with seeming like a nit but there are ways to do this dimplomatically. Make everyone see that a solid set of rules benefits everybody. The only time this is not received well is if somebody is truly trying to angle shoot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely see your point, but try to understand that this game consists of me (25 yrs) and several older businessmen. It is not a group of my peers. I do not feel comfortable enforcing the rules with this group. They would definitely view me as a nit. I have an idea, though...

Maybe I should email the informal organzier, who at least has a little bit of B&M experience, and see if he agrees with me that the two of us (together) should try to enforce min-raises. I will let him know about this hand and the problems that can occur with our current structure. Good idea?

-Andrew

blinden84 · #8 10-03-2006, 10:00 AM

you should definately get this rule in action, it's there for a reason. It's a very important function of a NL game, it involves a lot of strategy to make a proper bet that your opponent isn't willing to raise you on.

thedustbustr · #9 10-04-2006, 08:01 PM

whatever it was, you weren't angle shooting. if you were angle shooting, you didnt speak up bc u wanted to call the smaller bet. you seem to have not spoken up due to past rulings and/or home rules. you're fine.

brammy · #10 10-04-2006, 08:06 PM

This is what I would have done:

Called the 20. When the other player bitched I would have said this:

"Yes, I know it's not a legal raise. But we've let the rule go by in the past and I didn't want to be a nit about enforcing it. It's a friendly game, so lets finish the hand out, and discuss how we want to treat raises in the future afterwards."